Consciousness: hard problem not solvable? (General)

by David Turell , Monday, September 16, 2019, 17:12 (1893 days ago) @ dhw

QUOTE: "If our experience of action doesn’t really affect what we do in the moment, then what is it for? Why have it? Contrary to what many people believe, I think agency is only relevant to what happens after we act – when we try to justify and explain ourselves to each other." (DAVID’S bold)

DAVID’s comment: Libet did not interpret correctly. The bold considers agency a feeling after we act. That sounds correct to me.

dhw: Perhaps you understand all this better than I do. “Feeling of agency” presumably means the feeling that we are the “agents” responsible for our actions. If not, what exactly does it mean?

DAVID: That is his meaning as I read it.

dhw: I’m glad we agree.

dhw: Once again, we are confronted with the mystery of consciousness. Is he saying that when we need to make a decision, we do not consciously weigh up the pros and cons offered by the information at our disposal?

DAVID: Again I read it as acknowledging that we do weight pros and cons before choosing.

dhw: But he says “agency” – the feeling that we are the agents responsible for our actions – only begins AFTER our actions!

That is our 'feeling' after our acts, but doesn't negate that we carefully considered and made real choices.

dhw: If so, I completely disagree, and I’m surprised that you endorse the bold. That doesn’t mean I am championing free will, because this depends on one’s view of the influences that cause us to process the information in a particular way. But perhaps I've missed his point?

DAVID: As I read it I've accepted his view.

dhw: Then you agree with him that we only feel responsible AFTER we act, and therefore the decision-making itself is not our responsibility! I thought you believed that we did have free will, i.e. that we are consciously in charge of our own decision-making BEFORE we act.

You have totally misinterpreted his meaning. Our feeling of full control (free will) does appear after we decided what to think or do. That is my feeling of my decisions.