Theodicy: solution lies in definition of God (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Monday, September 27, 2021, 15:36 (319 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID (transferred from “Giraffe plumbing”): […] what you don't seem to realize is your imagined God created an uncontrolled system which resulted in all the unwanted errors God wouldn't want. Not rational. My God created the only working system He could, recognized it was open to errors and built in editing systems.

dhw: "What you don’t seem to realize" is that you are saying exactly the same as me. I don’t know why you consider your God to be so limited in his skills, but according to you the system he built contained errors he didn’t want! That already means that he was not in full control, and even his so-called “editing systems” don’t always work! The only difference between us is that you prefer to dodge the problem of theodicy by focusing only on the wonderfully positive sides of the system. If you hear and see no “evil”, then you think the problem of “evil” will go away.

God was in full control of what He accomplished; the only system that could be developed is what He did in starting and evolving life. Since I believe there can be no other way and your objection implies it is God's limitations we are, as usual, in full disagreement about God, Himself. My God knows exactly what can be accomplished.

DAVID: Your versions of God do not fit my definitions of God, the title of this thread. My God's final goal was to produce humans, and He did it by evolving us from bacteria. My God creates all of history, so history of evolution tells me what He decided to do.

dhw: The history of evolution according to you is that he specially designed EVERY life form, econiche, natural wonder etc., including all those that had nothing to do with his goal. Why “final” goal? Did he have other goals before that of producing humans? If so, what could they have been?

Strange illogical view, as usual. Evolving humans from bacteria entails exactly those events to which you object.

DAVID: Why He chose that method are from His reasoning, to which I am not privy.

dhw: If you are not “privy” to his reasoning, how do you know that YOUR choice of method is from HIS reasoning? You simply can’t accept that YOUR lack of reasoning might mean that you are wrong, and there may be another explanation for the history of evolution.

What other explanation? Chance? UFO's? I view God as creator of all reality. History happened because of His reasoning.

DAVID: Since you keep asking me for His reasons, which you know I cannot answer, I asked you, in the same vein to ask your form of Him. You logically can't answer either. Surprise!

dhw: I have offered you three different theistic reasons for the history of evolution, and you have accepted all of them as logical! Stop dodging!

No dodge. Your humanized God creates a logical theistic reasoning in that limited scenario.

DAVID: The giant current bush provides food for all of life.

dhw: But the question is why he created all the giant bushes to supply all the life forms of the past that had no connection with humans. Dodge, dodge.

Illogically complaining as usual. Evolution requires different-sized bushes all the way from bacteria onward.

DAVID: As for your illogical constant complaint about my theory re' our arrival, from bacteria to us, is all connected through the process of evolving us. His goals are us and the giant food-supply bush.

dhw: So all the life forms and foods that were not connected to us are connected to us through the process of evolving us. No wonder you want me to ask God to explain it!

My God did it, and it makes perfect sense to me. But He didn't tell me why He used evolution as His preferred method. History says that is what He did. It is as if I am on the inside with God, and you are always on the outside complaining.

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