Theodicy (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Friday, October 30, 2020, 22:04 (30 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Totally empty point: Having similar thought patterns does not tell us His reasons for His goals.

dhw: Nothing can tell us his goal or goals, or his reason for wanting to achieve his goal or goals. But it is absurd to reject a theory on the grounds that it “humanizes” him when you acknowledge that he probably has thought patterns similar to ours.

DAVID: Still struggling: thought patterns of logic, etc., never can tell us His reasons!!!

dhw: I have just answered you!

No real answer. His pattern of thought does not tell us "his reasoning!!! Since you are insistent, tell me how thinking patterns reveal purpose. Look at His works to see goals!

DAVID: Adler explains why I am correct, and you belittle the unexplained uniqueness of humans arising from apes with no driving force known to us.

dhw: […]: I have always accepted the uniqueness of humans, and your driving force argument can be applied to all species after bacteria. You are simply repeating dodge after dodge to avoid the question I put you on the “error corrections thread”.

DAVID: Of course you accept we are unique.

dhw: So why do you say I belittle our uniqueness?

DAVID: [...] Why we appeared in is the point, philosophically. Your answer?

dhw: Why did any multicellular organism appear, since bacteria are so successful? I have offered you a philosophical (theistic) explanation for the appearance of ALL organisms, and it also explains theodicy.

DAVID: From another thread on balance of nature my thought: 'Evolution could not have advanced beyond bacteria without God pushing evolution, after their invention by God!!!

dhw: If your God had wanted a free-for-all instead of a puppet show, he could have endowed the first cells with the intelligence to design their own advances as conditions changed, offering new challenges and opportunities. No divine pushing necessary.

Again a weak God giving up controls.

dhw: ALL organisms offer your God something interesting to watch, and humans are particularly interesting. Hence the bolded theory above which you attempt to dismiss with your silly objection that it is “humanizing”.

DAVID: We don't know God is interested. He might be, and I'll stick with Adler's 50/50.

dhw: Last week you wrote: “I’m sure he sees what is going on with His own level of interest, unknown to us.” Interest is interest.

So now you know God's level of interest is equal to our levels of interest. You now claim to know more about God than anyone else on Earth.

dhw: “Humanized” is dealt with and demolished above, using your own words (he probably has thought patterns similar to ours). You are sure your God watches us with interest. So please tell us why he could not have created life in order to have something interesting to watch.

You don't ever understand how much you humanize god. We don't know if He is interested. We can only think so. He may not care. That is a logical neutral position

DAVID: How do you know God is interested to the depth you insist upon? It could be quite casual. Adler was a believer but accepted 50/50 as I do. Human free will is in our brain's neurons, not in DNA which is where evolution is controlled.

dhw: Nobody “knows” even if your God exists. Your own theory is not “knowledge”! We offer theories and then test them for feasibility. If you think your God took the trouble to design a universe in order to design life in order to design humans, but you think his interest is “casual”, so be it. It would be perfectly feasible to argue that since he doesn’t intervene, he has lost interest altogether (just as it is perfectly feasible to argue that he never existed). But for the sake of argument, as our subject here is theodicy, I am offering a theory which explains the whole of life, and the existence of and reason for good and evil. You have not offered a single logical reason for rejecting it.

I don't reject it as it logically fits your humanized form of God. On that basis it is possible but we are not discussing m y God and His personality. Can you finally tell me about your God's personality and serious view of purposes.

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