Theodicy: solution lies in definition of God (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, September 27, 2021, 14:44 (324 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID (transferred from “Giraffe plumbing”): […] what you don't seem to realize is your imagined God created an uncontrolled system which resulted in all the unwanted errors God wouldn't want. Not rational. My God created the only working system He could, recognized it was open to errors and built in editing systems.

"What you don’t seem to realize" is that you are saying exactly the same as me. I don’t know why you consider your God to be so limited in his skills, but according to you the system he built contained errors he didn’t want! That already means that he was not in full control, and even his so-called “editing systems” don’t always work! The only difference between us is that you prefer to dodge the problem of theodicy by focusing only on the wonderfully positive sides of the system. If you hear and see no “evil”, then you think the problem of “evil” will go away.

DAVID: […] God had humans as His ultimate goal. We were not 'his only want'. Everything He produced from our BB onward was part of His overall plan.

dhw: According to you, all life forms were “part of the goal of evolving [=designing] humans” and their food. If we were not his only want or goal, then what other goals did he have? When challenged to explain why he designed all the other unconnected life forms, your response has been that I should go and ask God! If he exists, I have no doubt that whatever life forms existed/exist are the result of his overall plan. And I have offered you several versions of the plan, all of which explain the great variety of life forms that have come and gone, and all of which you agree are logical, while you go on dodging the challenge bolded above.

DAVID: Your versions of God do not fit my definitions of God, the title of this thread. My God's final goal was to produce humans, and He did it by evolving us from bacteria. My God creates all of history, so history of evolution tells me what He decided to do.

The history of evolution according to you is that he specially designed EVERY life form, econiche, natural wonder etc., including all those that had nothing to do with his goal. Why “final” goal? Did he have other goals before that of producing humans? If so, what could they have been?

DAVID: Why He chose that method are from His reasoning, to which I am not privy.

If you are not “privy” to his reasoning, how do you know that YOUR choice of method is from HIS reasoning? You simply can’t accept that YOUR lack of reasoning might mean that you are wrong, and there may be another explanation for the history of evolution.

DAVID: Since you keep asking me for His reasons, which you know I cannot answer, I asked you, in the same vein to ask your form of Him. You logically can't answer either. Surprise!

I have offered you three different theistic reasons for the history of evolution, and you have accepted all of them as logical! Stop dodging!

DAVID: I don't dodge. You persist in a strange misinterpretation of my interpretation of God's decision to produce us.

dhw: God’s decision to produce us (and our food) does not explain why he produced all the life forms and foods that had no connection with us. Once more: please tell us what you think might have been his other goals or “wants”.

DAVID: The giant current bush provides food for all of life.

But the question is why he created all the giant bushes to supply all the life forms of the past that had no connection with humans. Dodge, dodge.

DAVID: As for your illogical constant complaint about my theory re' our arrival, from bacteria to us, is all connected through the process of evolving us. His goals are us and the giant food-supply bush.

So all the life forms and foods that were not connected to us are connected to us through the process of evolving us. No wonder you want me to ask God to explain it!

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