Theodicy (Introduction)

by David Turell , Saturday, November 21, 2020, 19:05 (1461 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: The key point is that nobody knows the truth about all the subjects we discuss, which is why we continue to discuss them. Yes, it is obvious that you have rejected my views (I have more than one) despite admitting that they are logical. You reject them because they involve giving God human characteristics, although in your view your God probably has human characteristics. You have found no other reason to reject them.

It depends on analysis of God's character. We vastly differ.

DAVID: I'll stick with my belief God is in charge of creating history, and accepted history has no errors.

dhw: The errors in the above exchange refer to your theory of evolution being wrong, not to history having no errors! In any case, according to you, your God designed a system in which errors were unavoidable. I have opposed that with my theory that what you called errors were NOT errors. So you’ve got it wrong with both references.'

Telling me I'm wrong proves nothing.

dhw:The example we used for evil was bad bugs, which you insist your God deliberately designed, but you have no idea why. It’s not much of a logical interpretation then to say: “He created the bugs we view bad for His own reasons which are not obvious to us at this time. We may find out why with more research.”

DAVID: That is logical to me.

dhw: I don’t what constitutes the logic in your belief that he deliberately designed the bad bugs and we don’t know why.

The logic is we don't know why as yet.

DAVID: It is perfectly logical if you are considering a very humanized God.

dhw: Back to square one. You are sure that your God is interested in his creations, so that’s OK. But if I say that maybe interest was his reason for creating his creations, suddenly that’s VERY humanized and not acceptable, even though God probably has thought patterns etc. similar to ours.

Again your twisted interpretation of my thoughts. Only logical thought patterns!!!

DAVID: In my view, as you know, God is very purposeful and keeps tight control over all the processes He creates.

dhw: In my view, if God exists, he is purposeful, very purposeful, extremely purposeful, as purposeful as a purposeful God can possibly be. Satisfied? But his purpose may have been to give free rein to what he creates, because he doesn’t want what, in one of your enlightened moments, you called a dull Garden of Eden. This would explain the constant comings and goings, the vast diversity, and the existence of what we call evil: God deliberately and very purposefully created a free-for-all.

If by free-for-all you mean unguided evolution, I don't think so. Your very purposeful God would have specific goals, such as our unwarranted, unexpected arrival as based on a weak theory of Darwin survivability. All per Adler's reasoning. Only a purposeful designer can make humans appear.

DAVID (under “a gliding animal”): I had no idea there were 60 gliding mammals. The question in my mind is why did evolution stop with gliding in these mammals and only bats developed flight wings. I'll stick with it is what God wanted.

dhw: I like your last comment. If he directly designed it, he must have wanted to design it. If it designed itself, he got the variety of life forms and wonders and strategies he wanted. Either way he wanted it. How does that make it and its 59 fellow gliders “part of the goal of evolving [= directly designing] humans” and their food su

Again your humanizing approach. The gliders all fit into their special econiches.