Genome complexity: what genes do and don't do (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Monday, March 11, 2019, 17:46 (15 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Bacteria carry their program and ones for the future they cannot use for themselves but is passed on to allow multicellular forms to arrive.

dhw: Thank you. So now we have the first bacteria carrying programmes for every single life form, econiche, lifestyle and natural wonder in the history of life past, present and future, and somehow knowing which programme is for them alone. I wonder what happened next. Did they squiggle through history unknowingly passing the dinosaur programme and nothing but the dinosaur programme to pre-dinosaur cells, cuttlefish and camouflage programme to pre-cuttlefish cells, weaverbird and nest programme to pre-weaverbird cells, and hominin and pelvis programme to pre-hominin cells? Wouldn’t it be fascinating to discover what programmes they are still carrying for life in, say, a thousand million years’ time! Of course you think evolution is over, but hey, you never know.

DAVID: Great response, very funny at that! It is either that or dabbling.

dhw: I’m glad you agree that your vision of bacteria unknowingly dishing out programmes to pre-dinosaurs, pre-cuttlefish, pre-weaverbirds and pre-hominins is so ridiculous as to be funny. So out goes your preprogramming hypothesis. But I disagree that this leaves nothing but dabbling, i.e. your in-full-control God separately designing every life form, econiche, lifestyle and natural wonder in the history of life, although apparently he actually wanted to design just one life form. (I find that pretty funny too.) A theistic alternative is your God specially designing a mechanism whereby cells and cell communities use the intelligence he has given them to do their own designing.

I did not throw out pre-programming as a reasonable theory. Twisted over-interpreting as usual. Dabbling is the other alternative if God creates species as I believe.

DAVID: It can't itty -bitty Darwin steps. They don't exist. Mind the gaps! They need a designer.

Itty-bitty steps are not an alternative to preprogramming and dabbling, so please don’t change the subject. And besides, you never responded when I pointed out to you that your accounts of big toe design, pelvis design, and mini-to maxi brain design constitute itty-bitty steps on the way to H. sapiens. In my hypothesis, the cells/cell communities are the designers – and one can present a very logical case that the complexities of such designers are too great to have arisen by chance, and so they in turn "need a designer”. The issue here is not the existence of God but the mechanics of evolution.

Redesigning an ape pelvis to a human pelvis is not itty-bitty, considering the birthing issues that also arise. Chimp brain (400 cc) to human (1,200 cc) in 200 cc jumps is anything but itty-bitty. You present a very skewed view of evolutionary biological changes, just to sneak in your cell committees.

dhw: Sounds like more and more scientists to me.

DAVID: 90% of scientists are atheists. What interpretation did you expect? Remember the chances are still either/or.

dhw: You asked me what “more and more” scientists, and I have told you! So now you do a complete volte face and tell us that 90% of scientists reject your automaticity but let’s not listen to them because they are atheists! In any case, just like the theory of evolution, the proposal that cells/cell communities are intelligent does not in any way exclude your God, since nobody knows the origin of life or of the mechanisms that have led to evolution.

I agree we don't know how life started or speciation occurs. At least we have gotten rid of Darwin's gradualism. And we understand that natural selection can only act on forms it is given. Since there are the unknowns you listed, interpretations have to be open to reinterpretations, the background of atheist, agnostic, and theistic thinkers considered, when reading anything each group produces. You are sitting atop your picket fence with atheists on one side and us theists on the other. Not that the metaphor implies you are in a higher (better) position, only that your feet aren't planted or grounded in anything but disbelief. I'll reinterpret as I wish.

Complete thread:

 RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum