Magic embryology: physical forces form organs (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 13:15 (2054 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Cells coordinate or cooperate in using an amazingly flexible mechanism to create new structures as well as to repeat existing ones. This discovery suggests that from the very beginning cells had the "fundamental physical mechanism" to produce all the varieties of life in evolution’s history, and they also had the means of cooperating in order to use that mechanism.

DAVID: And who or what gave those early cells such amazing ability? Did they teach themselves? It is more logical they were designed that way.

Why do you ask this question, when you quote one possible answer below? We are not discussing the origin of life, but the mechanism of evolution.

dhw: You claim that every twist and turn in the history of cellular cooperation was divinely preprogrammed or dabbled, but as it is impossible to tell the difference between automatic and autonomous behaviour, this cooperation could just as well be brought about by interaction between intelligent organisms (cells) - allowing, as always, for both mechanism and intelligence to be the work of your designer God.

DAVID: It didn't come without a designer.

Belief in a single, unknown, unknowable, sourceless, eternal designer is a matter of faith, as is belief in chance.

dhw: This ties in with the entry under "Immunity" (and thank you for both articles):

dhw: QUOTES: Macrophages are cells critical to the immune system – and new imaging reveals how they actively monitor their surroundings, searching for invaders.
The cells are highly specialised. They are the body’s frontline troops when it comes to detecting, combatting and destroying invading bacteria and other unwanted microbes.
“'This is discovery science at the cutting edge of microscopy and reveals how much we still have to learn about how cells function.'”

dhw: I am struck by the parallel with ant communities – different types of ant/cell perform different functions within the colony/body, and it is the task of certain ants/cells to be the frontline troops in detecting, combating and destroying any invaders. It would be interesting to know how many people believe ants to be automatons, and if they opt for ant intelligence, to ask how they differentiate between ant and cellular behaviour.

TONY: Yes, but their function is set, it is static.

DAVID: Agree. In studies their reaction is always the same and automatic.

You are talking of functions that are already established. Firstly, that does not explain how those functions originated, and secondly, the fulfilment even of those functions requires the ability to deal with new threats.

DAVID: It is easy to see that automatic programmed action can be the answer. In ants automatic individual action has been shown in studies I have presented.

The studies you have presented show no such thing. They show the automatic use of chemicals as ants and cells put their highly sophisticated strategies into practice, just as humans use chemicals to implement their thoughts. And the studies certainly do not prove that the highly sophisticated strategies used to cope with ever changing conditions were preprogrammed by your God 3.8 billion years ago.