by dhw, Saturday, July 07, 2018, 11:58 (228 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Further we find that only certain brains are of a genius quality. Why the difference unless their brains are different from the low IQ folks?

dhw: You still can’t see that if the different brain is the cause of the genius, that is evidence for materialism, not dualism.

DAVID: You keep forgetting that in my concept the soul must use those complex genius networks to produce genius thought

You keep forgetting that in your concept of dualism it is the soul that initiates thought, that thought precedes changes in the brain (the illiterate women), that the soul uses the brain to acquire information and to give material expression to its thoughts, and you have consistently failed to tell us what other function the brain performs in the thought process.

DAVID: The soul is an immaterial mechanism which makes thought appear to us immaterially from wet ion filled neurons connected by wet dendrites, all of which are material.

dhw: If immaterial thoughts “appear from” material neurons and dendrites, we have materialism. If the latter are the means by which we give the “soul’s” immaterial thoughts material expression, we have dualism.

DAVID: Again you have a separatist view; the soul does not dictate to the networks. it uses them to think.

It was you who coined the term “separate consciousness mechanism”, we have always agreed that the TWO parts of the dualistic self, soul and brain, are interlocked and work together, and you have agreed that the soul gives instructions ("dictates") to what you call the recipient, passive brain for the material expression of its thoughts, just as you dictate your thoughts to your computer. See above for what the soul uses the brain FOR. I’ll skip the subsequent comments that repeat these points.

DAVID: Only in the completely enlarged sapiens brain, the only one we have to study. Do you think erectus could do differential calculus or even think to invent it? The concept existed at their time of evolution. All those complex concepts existed before some bright mind found them.

dhw: Ah, so Shakespeare’s plays existed before Shakespeare wrote them. Believe that if you will. But to answer your question: no, I don’t think erectus could do differential calculus.
Silly! Math concepts are actually rigid, and simply must be found. Will's plays are inventions.

Fair comment.

dhw: I think pre-sapiens and sapiens have undergone a process of ever increasing learning, as one generation builds upon the discoveries and inventions of its predecessors.

DAVID: To the limits of the complexity of its brain networks

But the brain is constantly complexifying as it has to cope with new thoughts! And it apparently discards cells and connections in order to keep complexification within the existing capacity (= shrinkage). If, as you constantly agree, the soul initiates thought, the limits of the brain relate only to the amount of information it can supply (e.g. we cannot see the boundaries of our universe) and the extent to which it can implement our thoughts (I can imagine flying unaided, but my brain/body can’t implement the concept). What other limitations does the passive, recipient brain impose?

DAVID: My computer has and does produce bad results when it is sick and I have to get the IT guy on the phone to straighten it out.

Exactly! It does not make you think sick thoughts! One up for dualism. But drugs and diseases do make you think sick thoughts. One up for materialism. Hence the dichotomy which you refuse to recognize.

DAVID: I do not accept how you relate the soul to the brain because you are approaching dualism in an entirely different way. The soul having to use the material brain is not materialism. The brain thinking totally on its own is materialism, no soul involved.

Of course the soul having to use the material brain is not materialism! The concept of the soul is dualistic! The dualist’s soul uses the brain for information and for expression, and you continue to ignore my question: what other functions does the brain perform in the thought process?

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