by David Turell @, Monday, May 07, 2018, 18:32 (287 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You have agreed that the s/s/c and brain are interlocked to work together. The point remains the same. The s/s/c must think using the brain networks and cannot think properly if the networks are sick. The immaterial and material have a definite interface!

dhw: I have agreed that in dualism your piece of your God’s consciousness does the thinking and works together with the brain to express/implement its thoughts materially. That is how they interface and are interdependent, and that is why a dualist can believe in the same piece of God’s consciousness still being able to think – independently of the need for material expression/implementation – when it separates from the brain (NDEs and an afterlife).

dhw: I would rewrite your statement as follows: Thought is always completely immaterial unless given material expression or implementation, and this can only be achieved when the s/s/c uses the brain networks. Do you agree?

DAVID: Yes. The s/s/c must use the brain to think during life.

dhw: You say yes, and then you repeat the formula I disagree with! The s/s/c uses the brain to give material expression/implementation to its thoughts.

I will stick to my view. The s/s/c must think in life using the brain networks.

DAVID: I have said that consciousness may well be a quantum energy mechanism in the brain (Penrose) which allows the appearance of consciousness, provided by God. It doesn't solve the problem of consciousness, but is a reasonable theory.
dhw: So do you now agree that your God might have designed a mechanism whereby materials produce consciousness?
DAVID: No. Pure quantum energy is not material. Penrose has it hiding in brain tubules.

dhw: That is not what I was asking. Consciousness or intelligence is not material, whether you call it “pure quantum energy” or a “soul”. So do you agree that your God might have designed a mechanism whereby materials produce the conscious energy which dualists call “soul”?

No, I think God gave us part of His consciousness added to a material brain.

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