Consciousness; research says insects have it (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, July 09, 2016, 12:22 (3058 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I am willing to accept that some activities, if simple enough, which I think aphid herding might be, can develop into instincts.
The question is whether the activities (farming, raft-building, nest-building etc.) are the result of intelligent design by the organisms themselves. Why are you being so coy? Are ants capable of intelligent design, as in aphid farming, without your God's instructions?
DAVID: Not coy. I'll accept farming and rafting as simple enough to be insect 'learned' processes that become instincts. Complex nests, too complex for that process. -But still you refuse to commit yourself to the possibility that insects are capable of intelligent design. Yes, you are being coy. And presumably you still stand by your claim that God personally designed or preprogrammed the weaverbird's nest in order to ensure that life went on so that humans could eventually walk the Earth.-DAVID: It isn't messy to me if God is everywhere and into everything.
dhw: If God's consciousness can split itself up into different levels and degrees, and is everywhere and into everything, then it is “into” us, your beloved doggy, my beloved ants and all other organisms, including those without brains. NB Instructions are not consciousness.-DAVID: Why the concept of different levels and degrees? Why can't the effect of God's consciousness be everywhere through the quantum level of reality, where He probably is hiding?-You did not say the “effect” of God's consciousness, which could very easily separate God from what he might have created. You said God was everywhere and into everything. I don't see how he could get there without his consciousness. I thought you might possibly agree that humans, dogs and ants have different levels and degrees of consciousness, so I am confused by your question. But this is precisely why I said that the concept of a universal consciousness only gets messy when you try to equate all the different levels and degrees with a single being “in full control” (though I'm glad to see elsewhere you are now conceding that his control may not be “full” after all). Already you can't make up your mind whether it's God's consciousness or the effects of his consciousness that are present everywhere and in everything.