Consciousness; research says insects have it (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, July 04, 2016, 12:38 (3063 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTE: "Both the bacteria and the algae appear to benefit from the arrangement, reminiscent of ants farming aphids. “I suspect it's mutualism,” says Rita Colwell of the University of Maryland at College Park. “They wouldn't be there if it wasn't beneficial to both parties.”
David's comment: Very similar to ants herding aphids.
dhw: I would suggest that the anomaly created by the ant/bacteria analogy is resolved by taking the opposite view to both yours and that of the insect researchers: that if brains are "supports" and not the source of consciousness, organisms without brains simply have different means of translating their consciousness into action. - DAVID: You want bacteria to have consciousness? Really? Loose use of word. Evidence? I accept that bacteria act as if they are conscious, and can explain it totally biochemically. - There is nothing loose about the word: consciousness is not the same as self-awareness, and you have agreed that insects are conscious (aware). For several years now we have been debating the question of cellular intelligence, and you know as well as I do that there are some highly reputable scientists who believe bacteria to be conscious. Why are you suddenly expressing surprise? Here I am pointing out the anomalous analogy, which you accepted, between “farming” ants and bacteria. You have completely ignored this anomaly, which my proposal resolves: the researchers clearly think the ants do it consciously, but since they think consciousness is impossible without brains, they must assume bacteria do it unconsciously. You accept ants' consciousness, but it makes no difference, because you think both ants and bacteria have to be preprogrammed or personally instructed by God anyway. My proposal above (in bold) resolves the anomaly whereby the researchers think unconscious organisms can produce the same results as conscious organisms, while you think none of them produce the results consciously (though ants are conscious). The remarkable case of the Frenchman (thank you for that), which you consider to be evidence that consciousness is NOT the product of the brain but supports dualism, also supports the idea that organisms without a brain may have consciousness. NB: Dualism does not depend on how much brain you have. Either the brain is the source or it is not. If it is not, either consciousness is immaterial or it may have other possible material sources (this might tie in with some forms of panpsychism).