Consciousness; research says insects have it (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, July 06, 2016, 13:10 (3061 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: The context was “farming”, not whether to turn left or right! Do you believe your God preprogrammed ants to farm aphids, personally instructed them, or gave them the intelligence to work it all out for themselves? - DAVID: It is possible it happened step by step. Some ants found aphids cooperative or easy to tame and bit by bit it developed into an instinct. - So do you believe the ants used their own intelligence and bit by bit learned from experience and experiment how to farm aphids, or do you believe God preprogrammed them 3.8 billion years ago or personally gave them instructions? - dhw: NB: Dualism does not depend on how much brain you have. Either the brain is the source or it is not. If it is not, either consciousness is immaterial or it may have other possible material sources (this might tie in with some forms of panpsychism).
DAVID: Agreed. Except consciousness does not have a material source unless totally neuron dependent for which there is no evidence. - dhw:In that case, it must be possible for brainless organisms to have consciousness.
DAVID: I was referring to NDE research in which neurons seem not to be needed for consciousness to be active. I still consider brainless organisms to have automatic reactions. - I know you do. It is your fixed belief that I am questioning. If the enormous complexities of human consciousness can exist without neurons, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that much simpler forms of consciousness can exist without neurons. Do you or do you not accept the logic of this argument?