Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Sunday, May 02, 2021, 22:26 (1299 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Given God is the creator, and we evolved from bacteria, how can you question my theory as a dodge?

dhw: Your theory is not a dodge. The dodge is your blinkered emphasis on what we both accept – namely, that we evolved from bacteria – while you keep omitting your acceptance that all the other life forms also evolved from bacteria, 99% of them had no connection with humans, and yet you go on insisting that all of them were “part of the goal of evolving [= specially designing] humans.”

The connection is the necessary food supply. I fully understand the line of inheritance we followed. There is more than one aspect to the process of evolving humans who then dominate the Earth with a huge population which must eat to survive. Take off your blinkers.

DAVID: It doesn't fit the way you try to think about God which never appears to be a thorough exploration. I don't think you appreciate the complexity of living biochemical reactions.

dhw: My exploration leads to various alternative views. I have always totally accepted the complexity of life, which is relevant to belief in a designer but has absolutely no relevance to your theory that all species were specially designed “as part of the goal of evolving [= specially designing] humans”, even though 99% of them had no connection with humans. You have no idea why your God should choose such a method, and that is why you keep dodging. This illogical theory, however, is your fixed belief, so by all means stick to it, and let’s leave it at that.

Fully and logically explained above. A specially designed food supply cannot be denied.

DAVID: This statement misses the point. My version of God's personality, based on analyzing His total works from big Bang onward, tells me He is an exact purposeful planner with definite goals in mind. Note I must use human meanings in the words I use. I don't know if He does it for enjoyment or experimentation, your humanizing guesses. You guess, I don't try to.

dhw: Thank you for finally jettisoning your meaningless use of the word “allegorical”, which you refuse to define. We both agree that if God exists, he must have had a purpose for creating life. I have dealt with your own theory above, and I have drawn attention to all the “humanizing” aspects of your “version of God’s personality” (purposeful, always in control, knowing what he’s doing, doing it all for “the good” etc.), which fit in with your earlier acknowledgement that he probably/possibly has thought patterns and emotions similar to ours. Nobody knows the truth, but you have agreed that all my (theistic) alternatives fit in logically with the history of life as we know it. And so I have no idea why this discussion is still going on.

Your use of my terms in a human sense simply confuses the issue. The God I envision is not human, does not do 'humanizing' actions although His actions and purposes must be defined in human terms, as in the bold you quoted. His thought patterns and emotions are sheer guess work and again must be described in human terms. You have never understood how your free-for-all loving, experimenting God is weak and purposeless and not acceptable to me as a valid view of God. We will never agree on it.

DAVID: Your 'probing' questions are unanswerable, requiring guesswork beyond what we can analyze from His total works. They are your problem leading to confusion in interpreting God's actions and thus agnosticism.

dhw: My probing questions concern the logic of your particular theory of evolution, which you yourself cannot explain.

My thought that God chose to evolve us is a valid explanation you refuse tov accept.

dhw: I offer you alternatives which you accept as being logical. The only confusion I can discern in these discussions is your own, since you cannot find the logic behind your own theory. My agnosticism is irrelevant. All my theories allow for the existence of God. I am not an atheist.

The logic is I see God as the creator in charge of our reality, so what we see is what He wanted and did. Your theories allow for a strange humanized form of God.