Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Tuesday, February 09, 2021, 18:37 (1381 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You have to admit we have found our backwards, upside down retina is the best, the appendix and the thymus are not vestigial. So our judgements are lousy if based on just judgement, not factual research. We've discussed molecular errors and I've used necessary speed of reactions with free-floating molecules as the reason they happen, and it is the best arrange for life to exist and continue to thrive.

dhw: My question was not about things we know are not “vestigial”, but about things we all regard as “bad”! Discoveries about the retina, appendix and thymus do not mean we will one day discover that Covid-19, Ebola, Yellow Fever, Malaria, Alzheimer’s, MND etc. etc. (i.e. diseases caused by bad bacteria, viruses, “errors” in the system) are what we would call “good”.

Our discoveries about what we thought were 'bad' does mean we may find some good reasons. And remember God made us with the brains to fight these problems which could be purposeful on His part to challenge us. The Garden of Eden is boring, and I know you accept that.

DAVID: As for 1-3 I view God as hands-on, and you invent a humanized God who is hands-off and goes free-for-all to give Him interesting spectacles. Hardly God-like at all.

dhw: 1 and 2 have nothing whatsoever to do with the free-for-all theory. You have agreed yet again that it is possible for God to have human characteristics so please stop trying to use that as your get-out, and in any case you are sure that he is interested in the “spectacles” you say he has directly created. And how do you know what God is like?

Again you know God's self-interest in being entertained by spectacle. I view God as being interested in His creations as any inventor would be, but never as a reqjired entertaining spectacle for His enjoyment as you infer.

dhw: For years now I have been telling you that I do NOT believe that a God whose only purpose was to design H. sapiens would first design millions of life forms, econiches, lifestyles, strategies and natural wonders, 99% of which had no connection with humans! You have said yourself that you have no idea why he would have chosen such a method to achieve such a purpose. If you are now claiming that this theory is logical, please explain the logic. If you still have no idea, let’s leave it at that.

DAVID: His choosing a method is a logical thought.

dhw: As is his having a purpose. It is your particular interpretation of his purpose and method of achieving his purpose which defies all logic, leaving you with no idea why he would choose such a method to achieve such a purpose. So let’s leave it at that.

DAVID: It only defies your twisted illogic.

dhw: Then once and for all, tell us the logic that would lead your God - whose one and only purpose according to you was to design H. sapiens - to directly design millions of life forms, econiches etc. etc, 99% of which had no connection with humans.

The obvious connection is evolution from simple to complex. As pure logical guess: He wished us to be the only being on Earth that recognized He exists. He certainly doesn't need or want recognition but perhaps He wanted to see how we would think about creation and how it happened. Per Adler, our most unusual arrival begs for explanation, and he and I have given it to you. Do you ever really question why we are here? It is a key philosophic thought question.