Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Tuesday, March 02, 2021, 13:05 (1360 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Contingency!!!! required by the process of evolution.

dhw: Howling “contingency!!!” explains nothing. Please explain why your God’s direct design of humans was contingent upon his direct design of the brontosaurus. […]

DAVID: Just another branch in the bush of life, its size required for food energy supply.

Thank you. “Just another branch” is precisely my point. No connection with humans – i.e. not “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans.”

DAVID: Again, contingency is the key to evolution. What is a past form becomes a new form by modification as evolution proceeds forward accepting Darwin's premise of common descent.

dhw: An excellent description of how common descent works, and totally irrelevant to the question why your God designed all the life forms that had no connection with humans if his only goal was to design humans – or to put it another way, how does “contingency” come to mean that every single life form in the history of life was “part of the goal of evolving (= designing) humans”? You have no idea, and that is where this discussion should end.

DAVID: I'm full of ideas and concepts about evolution and humans most of which you remain blind to:
God chose to evolve us, and you agree, noting 'if' He exists. The history of evolution is real, and you reject it, and ask the ridiculous question: if He wanted humans why did He bother to evolve them as history shows with all the intervening forms? Total non sequitor.

As usual, you dodge the bolded question, and totally misrepresent my objections to your theory! I wish you would stop doing so. Please note: 1) I accept the history of evolution. 2) If God exists, he chose to evolve ALL FORMS OF LIFE, every one of which is part of the history of evolution. 3) I do not ask why your God would have bothered to evolve humans, but why, if humans were his only goal, he bothered to evolve [design] the 99% of life forms that are part of the history of evolution but had no connection with humans.

Viruses

dhw: You have repeated that you don’t believe the “humanized” free-for-all theory, and I know you prefer your “humanized” always-in-control theory, and we might add that you can’t explain why your “humanized” God would create all the “bad” things, because your “humanization” of him implicitly makes him all “good”. Now, regardless of your subjective beliefs and disbeliefs, please explain why you find my theory illogical.

DAVID: There is no logic in our views of God. […] Your very humanized God does logical things since your 'god' is so human.

dhw: Now apparently my view of God is illogical because he does logical things, and that “humanizes him”. And yet even when you try to wriggle out of your support for the possibility/probability that your God has thought patterns and emotions similar to ours, you insist that he has logic like ours.

DAVID: I don't see what you are attempting to prove. We can be sure God uses logical thought as we do. As long as you do not understand your humanizing approach, as shown in the 'timeless' thread, we won't reach any agreements.

My “humanizing approach” is that your God would act logically, and you have agreed that your God uses logical thought as we do. You say that my “very humanized God does logical things”, and so I am asking you to give me a logical reason for rejecting my logical theory.