Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell @, Saturday, February 13, 2021, 18:27 (89 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Aside from the possibility that the Chinese designed the virus, it probably arose from mutations of any earlier existing corona virus, God not involved. Wanting to create an interesting item is pure humanizing. God has purpose in creation, not to provide interest to avoid boredom. Is He interested in the result? Of course He would be as a secondary effect, not as a primary as you pose it

dhw: You have said your God designed all bad bacteria and viruses. Presumably his design allows them to mutate. The question is why he designed them. Why tell us God has a purpose in creating life (including humans) if you refuse to discuss what that purpose might be?

Ad nauseum, His final point of purpose was for humans with big-brained consciousness to appear. No refusal, as you claim. We have discussed viruses as aiding in the process of evolution as one possible 'good' role. Viruses enter DNA as contributing residents.

dhw: And from where do you get your inside information that he’s interested but didn’t create life in order to have something interesting to watch?

God is above having to create something for self-entertainment. My view of His personality fully differs from your humanizing thoughts.

dhw: If his only aim was to design humans, why did he design all the extinct life forms that had no connection with humans? You have told us again and again that you have no idea, so why don’t you just leave it at that?

DAVID: As usual you ignore food supply.

dhw: ALL forms of life have to have food. How does that mean that the 99% of them that had no connection with humans were part of the goal of evolving humans? Please stop playing this silly dodging game!

No dodge. All steps of evolution to humans to all preceding forms.


DAVID: Food supply and protection from dangers, same as apes.

dhw: Thank you. Food supply and protection from dangers = survival.

Our brains were far beyond that need, as you well know

Insect plasticity

DAVID: You forgotten to tell me all advances are the result of the need for survival.

dhw: I have objected to your insistence that humans are unique because bacteria have survived and so we were not needed. NO multicellular life form was “needed”... to re-enter the context of this particular discussion, that does not mean every other life form extant and extinct was “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” – the illogical part of your theory which you are so desperate to avoid even mentioning.

No dodge. We came through evolution from all those extinct 99% forms and necessary food supply.

DAVID: Therefore evolution had an advancing guiding force, which is not the Darwinist survival daydream of a theory.

dhw:[…] Multicellularity – i.e. the cooperation of cell communities – clearly provided new means of survival. Or do you think every new organ and strategy and natural wonder came into existence just for the fun of it?

DAVID: For God's purpose. Ah, I knew survival would appear. Still no explanation for the human brain, except Adler's, on the basis of pure survival. Your Darwin steak is showing. I've never accepted the idea.

dhw: Why don’t you answer my now bolded question? You yourself have even pointed out that the first sapiens did nothing much except survive until there was an explosion of activity in more recent times. By then we had our brains.

The new organs were part of the necessary advance in complexity to create us.

DAVID: I simply posit God speciates.

dhw: No you don’t! You posit that your God directly designed every life form, econiche, natural wonder etc., and all of them were designed as “part of the goal of evolving humans” although 99% of them had no connection with humans. Please, please, stop this silly dodging game.

Of course God is the designer of life and the steps to humans make humans are all related to human creation. Your weirdly illogically chopped up evolution into unrelated segments makes no sense. Evolution is a single process.

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