Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Thursday, April 01, 2021, 17:49 (1330 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I know what a free-for-all implies.

DAVID: But you don't consider it as I do as it relates to a purposeful God.

dhw: If your God designed a free-for-all, his purpose was to design a free-for-all. You normally refuse to speculate on his purpose for creating humans and their food supply – his one and only goal – so we needn’t bother to ask why he wanted to create a free-for-all (though I have taken up your certainty that he enjoys creating, and have suggested that enjoyment of creation might therefore be his purpose).

Same reason below:

DAVID: Humans as an end goal could easily be lost.

dhw: If humans were indeed his “end goal”, he could always dabble if he wanted to, but this is totally irrelevant to the question of why a totalitarian God is not human, whereas a free-for-all God is “very human”.

DAVID: A free-for-all God lacks purpose and is not the image of God I have. The use of totalitarian is bastardizing this discussion as it is not an applicable term in the context you are using. You do not understand how you humanize God in your imagination of Him.

dhw: The lack of purpose argument is a non-starter, as I have shown above. I know you have a different theory. I have no idea what you mean by “bastardizing”, since you insist your God wants to be and is in total control (except when he isn’t, but that’s not his fault) – and I understand perfectly how YOU humanize God (i.e. endow him with thought patterns, emotions and other attributes similar to ours) in a different way from me,

I only assume He night have those attributes, while you act as if they are real!

DAVID: My God, from the point of starting this universe fine-tuned-for-life, knew what the endpoint would be.

dhw: Most human designers start out with a purpose and know what the endpoint will be. So how does this come to mean that God the know-all designer is not “human”, whereas a power that designs a mechanism that will produce an endless and unpredictable variety of life forms, developments, events etc. is “very human”?

DAVID: The word 'unpredictable' makes your God weak. My version of God is as above, a creator who knows exactly where He is headed in creating.

dhw: There is nothing weak about a God who deliberately creates something unpredictable. You have missed my point and have totally ignored my now bolded question. Please answer.

Unpredictable mean uncertain. My purposeful God won't do that. An unpredictable purpose is only that with no foreseen end point or goal. Why can't God have goals?

DAVID: Note the precisely designed fine-tuning of the universe to allow life to appear on a very special Earth on which it happened. Seems like precise designing to me. Why would stop that precision during evolving life? Your view of God is inconsistent with the history of His works.

dhw: If he exists (and for the sake of this discussion, I am assuming that he does), then of course the design is precise! That is not the subject of our discussion, which is your insistence that he had only one goal in mind (humans) and so proceeded to precisely design millions of life forms, 99% of which had nothing to do with humans.

Same old illogical complaint. "The Difference of Man and the Difference it Makes" is the full answer.

Subduction
DAVID: Now we know subduction started very early to make this planet just perfect for life. God doesn't always waste time. Sometimes He seems to but that is a humanizing complaint about Him. His timing is obviously what He prefers since He is always in total control. And that easily explains Why God gave us a big brain much earlier than its full use finally happened. Why deny that God knows what He is doing.

dhw: You just did. On the same day: “he is always in total control “, and “It is possible God did not recognize exactly how we would learn to use our brain. We are beyond His control so here is your example of free-rein in action!” But even if he was fully in control, that does not explain why he would have given us extra cells which would prove to be redundant!

Minor quibble. God knew exactly what He was doing in granting total free will. The extra cells allowed a more exact complexification process is a reasonable view, considering God is a thorough designer as proven by the complexities of living biochemistry .