Clever Corvids: more on how clever (Introduction)

by David Turell , Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 17:22 (2188 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: We are back to the debate whether an action is understood as knowledgeably intended or automatic and the result of instinct. Those of us with consciousness know why we respond as we do.

dhw: And that is what you called “true” intelligence. I challenge that concept and argue that there are degrees of intelligence.

DAVID: Of course, but I'm referring to the ability to have introspection and an understanding of why we decide to do what we do.

Yes, I know you are. And I am pointing out that there are degrees of intelligence, and the fact that as far as we know we are the only species to have introspection etc. does not mean that other organisms, including cells, are not intelligent.

DAVID: So back to cells: they have no degree of cognitive understanding and therefore reacting with what looks intelligent but all they are doing is following an intelligent designed response to a stimulus.

dhw: And so you go back to your “large organs chauvinism” (Shapiro) by repeating your belief - as if it were a fact - that cells merely follow your God’s instructions. “My” scientists specifically argue that cells do have a degree of cognitive understanding.

DAVID: Which is only their stated opinion , but never proof or fact, based on their studies which I have reviewed. Cells are automated factories, which is all they have shown. The 'intelligence' is a human interpretation of the studied logical reactions. If they weren't logically working there would be nothing alive.

dhw: “Cells are automated factories” is neither proven nor factual: it is your stated opinion. You have agreed many times that this is 50/50, and your interpretation is no more and no less human than theirs - unless you are not human, but having had the privilege of meeting you in person, I will swear to my dying day that you are as human as I am! And yes, if cells didn’t work logically, they wouldn’t survive. That can hardly mean they are incapable of logical thought.

Or totally automated. Take your choice.