Clever Corvids: more on how clever (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, November 25, 2018, 19:47 (2190 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The issue is still the same: a mind knows why the action is intelligent. That is true intelligence. Our outside judgement recognizes intelligent results which actually is our analysis of the action. The underlying process can be automatic or intelligent. No way around this.

dhw: That is not the issue at all. What is “true” intelligence, as opposed to intelligence? You have gone back to the great big wiggle of defining intelligence as self-awareness. There are degrees of intelligence, as you have admitted in the past when talking about your dog and corvids and other problem-solving creatures (problem-solving being the prime means by which scientists test for intelligence). But now apparently you think that only humans are intelligent.

You have misinterpreted my comment. We are back to the debate whether an action is understood as knowledgeably intended or automatic and the result of instinct. Those of us with consciousness know why we respond as we do. I've lived with dogs most of my life. When they lie down, on something soft or firm they inevitably curl their bodies and circle before they lie. The standard explanation which I can accept, is as wolves in a grassy areas, this action made a nice bed. I view it as pure instant , and my dogs never knew why they did it. They do understand some things. He just came to me and danced expectantly. I knew he hadn't been out in a while. He purposely danced and stared, because he has established a body language communication with me. We went out and the first think he did was pee. I agree he showed intelligent purpose. But he only has a minor degree of that, compared to me. So back to cells: they have no degree of cognitive understanding and therefore reacting with what looks intelligent but all they are doing is following an intelligent designed response to a stimulus.