Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use (Introduction)
by David Turell 
, Tuesday, March 22, 2016, 15:03 (2956 days ago) @ dhw
dhw;It doesn't matter when lessons begin, or how many lessons are needed, or when crows observe other crows using tools. Once the first clever crow has come up with his/her “invention”, there are perfectly simple ways in which other crows can take it up. God did not need to preprogramme every Caledonian crow to start using tools. - Only when observation shows crows watching other crows inventing is your point valid. - > DAVID: Sometimes we agree a bit. These are parallel developments. Self-protection for survival is built into life. > > dhw: Issue settled, so long as you agree that aggression, fear, the need to explore, social cooperation, parental love etc. etc. are common to the organisms that have preceded us, and are not human inventions. - Agreed. All organisms with brains have parallel capacities to react as your describe.
Complete thread:
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
David Turell,
2011-06-29, 15:28
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- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
xeno6696,
2011-07-02, 14:01
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
David Turell,
2011-07-02, 15:00
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
xeno6696,
2011-07-02, 15:44
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing - David Turell, 2011-07-02, 17:42
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
David Turell,
2012-10-10, 13:50
- Clever Corvids -
David Turell,
2013-02-05, 20:00
- Clever Corvids -
David Turell,
2013-12-01, 05:56
- Clever Corvids: patience -
David Turell,
2014-03-11, 18:58
- Clever Corvids: beckedness -
David Turell,
2014-12-05, 01:48
- Clever Corvids: vs. two-year olds -
David Turell,
2014-12-13, 18:53
- Clever Corvids: analytic thinking -
David Turell,
2015-02-10, 19:43
- Clever Corvids: clever Mexican jays -
David Turell,
2015-05-23, 17:43
- Clever Corvids: keeping count -
David Turell,
2015-06-09, 18:02
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-08-29, 00:08
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-08-29, 08:45
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-08-29, 14:21
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-08-30, 21:26
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-08-30, 23:29
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-08-31, 19:24
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-01, 01:39
- Clever Corvids - consciousness derail -
romansh,
2015-09-01, 13:51
- Clever Corvids - consciousness derail - David Turell, 2015-09-01, 20:36
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-01, 16:25
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 00:33
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-02, 00:51
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 01:06
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-02, 01:23
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 04:28
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-02, 13:39
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 14:06
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-03, 01:32
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-03, 04:44
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-03, 04:46
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail - David Turell, 2015-09-03, 14:46
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-03, 04:46
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-03, 04:44
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-03, 01:32
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 14:06
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-02, 13:39
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 04:28
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-02, 01:23
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 01:06
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-02, 20:23
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 22:16
- Clever Corvids: responsese without neurons - David Turell, 2015-09-02, 22:57
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-03, 21:25
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-03, 22:32
- Clever Corvids: using tools - David Turell, 2015-09-04, 13:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-04, 19:03
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-04, 21:58
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-05, 10:49
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-05, 19:04
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-06, 15:31
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-06, 18:24
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-07, 19:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-07, 23:01
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-08, 17:47
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-08, 18:02
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-09, 13:17
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-09, 14:29
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-10, 11:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-10, 14:17
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-11, 16:22
- Clever Corvids: using tools - David Turell, 2015-09-14, 01:19
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-14, 19:38
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-15, 00:48
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-15, 20:11
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-17, 13:14
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-17, 14:17
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-18, 16:17
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-18, 17:20
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-19, 12:54
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-19, 14:08
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-20, 17:41
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-20, 18:26
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-21, 10:44
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-21, 14:43
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-22, 09:58
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-22, 15:03
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-23, 13:59
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use - David Turell, 2016-03-23, 14:32
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-23, 13:59
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-22, 15:03
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-22, 09:58
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-21, 14:43
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-21, 10:44
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-20, 18:26
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-20, 17:41
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-19, 14:08
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-19, 12:54
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-18, 17:20
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
BBella,
2016-03-20, 02:53
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use - David Turell, 2016-03-20, 04:57
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-21, 11:17
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-21, 15:30
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-22, 10:25
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-22, 15:15
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-23, 14:05
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach - David Turell, 2016-03-23, 14:38
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-23, 14:05
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-22, 15:15
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-22, 10:25
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
BBella,
2016-03-23, 19:56
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-23, 20:23
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-24, 13:26
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-24, 14:59
- Clever Corvids: As clever as apes -
David Turell,
2016-04-26, 19:41
- Clever Corvids: due to neuron number and design -
David Turell,
2016-06-14, 15:52
- Clever Corvids: Hawaiin species found - David Turell, 2016-09-14, 19:56
- Clever Corvids: due to neuron number and design -
David Turell,
2016-06-14, 15:52
- Clever Corvids: As clever as apes -
David Turell,
2016-04-26, 19:41
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-24, 14:59
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
dhw,
2016-03-24, 13:26
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-23, 20:23
- Clever Corvids: BBella's approach -
David Turell,
2016-03-21, 15:30
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-18, 16:17
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-17, 14:17
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
dhw,
2016-03-17, 13:14
- Clever Corvids: unique beaks for tool use -
David Turell,
2016-03-15, 20:11
- Clever Corvids: parrots using tools -
David Turell,
2015-12-16, 01:26
- Clever Corvids: hooked tools & saving them -
David Turell,
2015-12-23, 15:55
- Clever Corvids: observe their dead -
David Turell,
2016-01-09, 05:26
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-02-03, 01:10
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-03-04, 21:50
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
dhw,
2016-03-05, 13:28
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-03-05, 14:48
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
dhw,
2016-03-06, 17:28
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-03-07, 14:56
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
dhw,
2016-03-08, 18:10
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-09-22, 20:26
- Clever Corvids: and others in a review -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 00:49
- Clever Corvids: and others. Chickens! -
David Turell,
2017-01-04, 01:03
- Clever Corvids: ravens can remember and plan -
David Turell,
2017-07-13, 23:20
- Clever Corvids: handle probability better than we -
David Turell,
2018-05-30, 19:03
- Clever Corvids: making new tool from memory -
David Turell,
2018-06-28, 19:31
- Clever Corvids: making new tool from memory -
David Turell,
2018-07-02, 17:47
- Clever Corvids: inventing a tool to reach food -
David Turell,
2018-10-24, 20:25
- Clever Corvids: no! parrots inventing a tool to reach food -
David Turell,
2018-11-08, 23:50
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-23, 23:55
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-24, 12:08
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-24, 15:28
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-25, 09:00
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-25, 19:47
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-26, 11:50
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-26, 19:13
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-27, 15:42
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-27, 17:22
- Clever Corvids: estimating weight after training -
David Turell,
2019-01-09, 21:48
- Clever Corvids: controlling song calls -
David Turell,
2019-08-27, 19:17
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-24, 22:28
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-25, 12:32
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-26, 00:08
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-26, 12:30
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-26, 20:36
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-27, 12:44
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-27, 17:00
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-28, 14:14
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-28, 17:56
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-29, 14:18
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-29, 17:19
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-30, 10:59
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-30, 15:48
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-10-01, 11:30
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-10-01, 16:48
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-10-02, 12:26
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds - David Turell, 2020-10-02, 19:40
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-10-02, 12:26
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-10-01, 16:48
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-10-01, 11:30
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-30, 15:48
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-30, 10:59
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-29, 17:19
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-29, 14:18
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-28, 17:56
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-28, 14:14
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-27, 17:00
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-27, 12:44
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-26, 20:36
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-26, 12:30
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-26, 00:08
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
dhw,
2020-09-25, 12:32
- Clever Corvids: the cortical equivalent in many birds -
David Turell,
2020-09-24, 22:28
- Clever Corvids: controlling song calls -
David Turell,
2019-08-27, 19:17
- Clever Corvids: estimating weight after training -
David Turell,
2019-01-09, 21:48
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-27, 17:22
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-27, 15:42
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-26, 19:13
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-26, 11:50
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-25, 19:47
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-25, 09:00
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-24, 15:28
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
dhw,
2018-11-24, 12:08
- Clever Corvids: more on how clever -
David Turell,
2018-11-23, 23:55
- Clever Corvids: no! parrots inventing a tool to reach food -
David Turell,
2018-11-08, 23:50
- Clever Corvids: now New Zealand robins show memory -
David Turell,
2020-02-19, 18:22
- Clever Corvids: as smart as apes -
David Turell,
2020-12-10, 22:31
- Clever Corvids: other birds braininess -
David Turell,
2022-03-31, 17:50
- Clever Corvids: understanding probability -
David Turell,
2023-07-07, 17:46
- Clever Corvids: more song calls more problem solving - David Turell, 2023-09-15, 15:17
- Clever Corvids: understanding probability -
David Turell,
2023-07-07, 17:46
- Clever Corvids: other birds braininess -
David Turell,
2022-03-31, 17:50
- Clever Corvids: as smart as apes -
David Turell,
2020-12-10, 22:31
- Clever Corvids: inventing a tool to reach food -
David Turell,
2018-10-24, 20:25
- Clever Corvids: making new tool from memory -
David Turell,
2018-07-02, 17:47
- Clever Corvids: making new tool from memory -
David Turell,
2018-06-28, 19:31
- Clever Corvids: handle probability better than we -
David Turell,
2018-05-30, 19:03
- Clever Corvids: ravens can remember and plan -
David Turell,
2017-07-13, 23:20
- Clever Corvids: and others. Chickens! -
David Turell,
2017-01-04, 01:03
- Clever Corvids: and others in a review -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 00:49
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-09-22, 20:26
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
dhw,
2016-03-08, 18:10
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-03-07, 14:56
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
dhw,
2016-03-06, 17:28
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-03-05, 14:48
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
dhw,
2016-03-05, 13:28
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-03-04, 21:50
- Clever Corvids: a degree of abstract thought -
David Turell,
2016-02-03, 01:10
- Clever Corvids: observe their dead -
David Turell,
2016-01-09, 05:26
- Clever Corvids: hooked tools & saving them -
David Turell,
2015-12-23, 15:55
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-15, 00:48
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-11, 16:22
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-10, 14:17
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-10, 11:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-09, 14:29
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-09, 13:17
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-08, 18:02
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-08, 17:47
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-07, 23:01
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-07, 19:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-06, 18:24
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-06, 15:31
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-05, 19:04
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-09-05, 10:49
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-04, 21:58
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-03, 22:32
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 22:16
- Clever Corvids: intelligence derail -
romansh,
2015-09-02, 00:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-02, 00:33
- Clever Corvids - consciousness derail -
romansh,
2015-09-01, 13:51
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-09-01, 01:39
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-08-31, 19:24
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-08-30, 23:29
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-08-30, 21:26
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-08-29, 14:21
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
dhw,
2015-08-29, 08:45
- Clever Corvids: using tools -
David Turell,
2015-08-29, 00:08
- Clever Corvids: keeping count -
David Turell,
2015-06-09, 18:02
- Clever Corvids: clever Mexican jays -
David Turell,
2015-05-23, 17:43
- Clever Corvids: analytic thinking -
David Turell,
2015-02-10, 19:43
- Clever Corvids: vs. two-year olds -
David Turell,
2014-12-13, 18:53
- Clever Corvids: beckedness -
David Turell,
2014-12-05, 01:48
- Clever Corvids: patience -
David Turell,
2014-03-11, 18:58
- Clever Corvids -
David Turell,
2013-12-01, 05:56
- Clever Corvids -
David Turell,
2013-02-05, 20:00
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xeno6696,
2011-07-02, 15:44
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
David Turell,
2011-07-02, 15:00
- For Matt: Corvids are amazing -
xeno6696,
2011-07-02, 14:01