Clever Corvids: using tools (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, September 02, 2015, 00:33 (3371 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Wednesday, September 02, 2015, 01:11

dhw: I'm still waiting to hear how the first cells and their descendants managed to pass down divine computer programmes for billions of innovations and lifestyles over billions of years and organisms through all the random catastrophes that might have destroyed them, but that particular “how” doesn't seem to bother you.-Since DNA and the rest of the genome is a multilayered code, there is plenty of room for all the instructions.
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> dhw: If consciousness is produced by the brain, how can it be an entity all by itself? Consciousness is not an external object but an ongoing interior process, as is thought. And if thought is a product of consciousness, then when the producer of consciousness dies, the product of consciousness should die as well. But that is precisely what NDEs contradict: the brain is dead but consciousness survives and thoughts are still produced. In that case, consciousness and thought cannot be produced by the brain. Your dualism depends on the brain being a receiver, not a producer.-I understand that. By 'entity' I meant a special emergent production, and although I favor the receiver concept, I not sure enough of it to exclude brain production which can somehow survive clinical brain death once it is produced by the brain.-> dhw: And if consciousness is an entity all by itself, and if animals, birds and insects have consciousness (though not on the same level as our own), why should it not be the same for bacteria?-Because I think any degree of consciousness requires a brain. Because our consciousness is different than the organisms to which you refer. We have a consciousness which can foresee and plan for the future. Most animal research shows they live in the moment, with very little aspect of future planning found. As for your favorite bacteria, they respond immediately, only in the moment. This is the point you miss.
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> dhw: I am not myself arguing for or against dualism. The “emergence” of thought from chemical interactions is another explanation - with the product being greater than the sum of its parts. But if this is so for humans, it can also be so for bacteria, even without a brain.-I'm of the firm opinion that thought requires neurons.