Cosmology: Inflation theory under attack part 3 (Introduction)

by John Kalber, Thursday, November 02, 2017, 18:28 (2359 days ago) @ dhw

Sorry I overstepped the mark in my last episodic post.

Surely, in the absence of proof, any claims made, whether religious or not, can be degraded as ‘sourceless’! In point of fact my claims are sourced in the only knowable entity. My conclusions [possibly illusions – I am most certainly not infallible!] have the quality of obedience to known physical laws and not the wholly invented capacities of an unproven, completely imaginary God or superbeing. That alone makes my ideas credible by comparison.

Dhw: I asked you if you thought this awareness was “sufficient to put together all the components for the enormously complex mechanisms of life, reproduction and the capacity for evolution leading from bacteria to the human brain.”
Again in Part Two: “If, as I affirm, these building blocks are supplemented automatically, nothing in the way of a directing intelligence is required.” That is the IF I am questioning!
I’ll come back to this later, but there is no scientific evidence for your belief that there is a sub-atomical and chemical awareness which can in time automatically produce organs and organisms so complex that our finest minds are still trying to unravel their workings.
Firstly, you have taken my remark completely out of context. You say the universe is perfect, and then tell us: “It has no faults as far as I can see.” What is your point in calling it “perfect”? Your comment is clearly subjective and based on no conceivable criterion. THAT is why I said the universe is what it is. Secondly, as above, I do not know if blind, unconscious nature can or can't produce all the complexities of life. You are the one with the fixed belief.
Whilst my beliefs are firmly held they are far from ‘fixed’. They have altered dramatically in several areas of study. There is a high degree of understanding as to how atomic particles combine by entirely natural processes. These processes themselves are altered when conjunctions are made. It cannot be that they remain fully independent when acting in joined group. H2O becomes water, a qualitative change that reflects new 'rules of engagement' that not only rule that configuration but set conditions governing whether and what type of future acquisitions can be made. This latter condition will probably at some point, become capable of engaging with other [system compliant] tiny organisms that may introduce the prospect of advance in the same or yet another direction.

Were this not so, the diversity we see could not exist. There is a reasonable understanding of how atomic particles combine by natural processes. These combinations are altered when conjunctions are made. It cannot be that they remain fully unaltered and independent when acting in joined groups.

H2O becomes water, a qualitative change that reflects new 'rules of engagement'. They not only rule that configuration but also set conditions governing whether and what type of future acquisitions can be made. This latter condition will, at some point, have become capable of engaging with other [system compliant] tiny organisms that may introduce prospect of advance in the same or yet another outcome.

As only Nature is known to exist it acts alone. Introducing outside forces that ‘might’ exist is palpable nonsense.

My [contradictory?] remarks about nature being perfect were simply a recognition that my views are not known to be correct. I of course, feel completely certain they are right on the money! The ‘point’ of my comment is to counter the baseless idea that it is not perfect. Whilst I am not at all keen on arguing whether an idea is a faith or belief, I do care that it should be reasonably possible and conform with natural law. If it does it is discussable, if not...

I don’t care what you choose to call it. In substance I agree your synopsis. I cannot see why you have such difficulty in ‘allowing’ the interaction of inorganic materials to qualify as the precursor of ‘awareness’. Something must - it hasn’t sprung, fully formed out of thin air!

I maintain [as you may have noticed!] that everything flows in automatic succession, from the immutable laws of the Universe. Therefore logic dictates that whatever pre-exists mankind, such as awareness, is an ‘advantage’ heralded by awareness.
The border between organic and inorganic material is crossed when a purely atomic ‘sense’ becomes {probably first in plant life] a chemical awareness. Were I able to cogently prove this I would be the most scientifically advanced human on Mother Earth!

In animal [fishy] evolutions in the sea, this perhaps still initially chemical awareness was insufficient, but informed the genetic structure that greater sensitivity [consciousness] was a paramount need. Quite how these properties formed is unknown, but form they have!

I mention it because you queried “each and every nuance of feeling” as being experienced exclusively in the brain. All feeling lives in the brain. I mentioned aura etc to obviate its being introduced as an out of body experience.