Thank you David. I Cosmology: Latest theories of everything (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, August 31, 2017, 19:44 (2640 days ago) @ John Kalber

John: Perhaps you can advise me as to why you have such a reserved view of His powers. At one point you say, “All matter is a form of energy. They are interchangeable and eternal.”
If that means that, post God’s work, the universe can ‘do’ everything, we are in agreement except perhaps in defining the nature of matter. So the term ‘Energy’ is perfectly acceptable to me. It also allows that - under His supervision - nature has been granted the ability to generate life!

My comment about energy means nothing of the sort about a natural ability to create life. Matter is energy. Think if atom bombs, simply uranium releasing energy inside it. As for God, religions make all sorts of assumptions about Him, which I do not know are true.

John: This implies that the finished state of the universe is as good as He could make it. Not much point in creating an imperfect universe that is eternal!

Energy is eternal. The universe appeared 13.78 billion years ago from energy.

dhw: How can you see a limit to an intelligence that created an entire Universe complete with its phenomenal integral powers and ‘built in’ evolution?

I do not know God's limits.>

John: It appears in our discussion of biology and atoms that my view may not be quite understood. My premise is that - initially – the process of building any entity can be achieved by only the very simplest of steps, literally one at a time. The initial formation seems likely to take a relatively long time, the 'rules of engagement' being quite primitive at that point.

I don't agree. Anything which is being built to have a purpose (in this case life) must have a visualization of the result in order to propose and design a plan of formation. Atoms do nothing but come together to make molecules. Two hydrogen atoms are joined to make the gas.

John: This will allow molecules, then cells to gain in function but each will still require access to additional atoms in erecting ‘improvements’ – they don’t come complete. How these ‘additions’ are added is probably by extraction from food and other forces that are capable of penetrating the body. Either way, it is not a ‘closed shop’.

I don't think you understand organic chemistry. Molecules that make life are very large and will not react together to make a new molecule product unless driven by an activating enzyme, which is a separate giant specially formed protein molecule that forces the two molecules to join.

Eventually, a true complexity is formed and the path of an evolution is laid.

John: It is as if the Universe is an encyclopedia. Under every heading is a list of atoms that - strung together - make a particular structure that when completed may be not simply a fish, but a particular type. Other pages would list the needs for other fish, animals and so on – a rather big book!

It is accepted by many researchers that evolution runs on supplied information.

John: My purpose is basic. I wish to bridge the yawning gap between Dawkins pathetic and silly idea that pure luck, in the face of absolutely incredible odds, has fathered (along with 'Mother Nature'!) our wonderful Universe and contrast it with my own simple and logical tale of an automatic, but not quite blind, driven evolution.

I have to agree with you that chance did not produce evolution and the amazing bush of life topped by humans with their amazing brains.

John: It is, to me, obvious that just because we cannot ‘explain’ life yet, casting 'Mother Nature' as having been ‘lucky’ is, to say the least, improbable as she doesn’t do chance or arithmetic. The Universe has produced the idea of arithmetic, but arithmetic cannot produce, alter or negate the Universe.

'Mother Nature' works with what is, not what might be.

You imply that the natural structure of the universe allows for life to develop, I assume automatically. Obviously I strongly disagree, unless you come around to the concept that the parallel image of your idea is God directing everything in the background.