Theoretical origin of life; making catalysts (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, June 22, 2015, 12:48 (3442 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: We began this discussion with my objection to the vague term “information”, but since you insist on using it, I can only repeat that the same information is present, whether the molecules were assembled by God or by chance. I agree that it cannot come from nothing.
DAVID: Thank you. There has to be a source for the information.
dhw: The alternative sources appear to be: 1) a sourceless mind, which acquired all the “information” from nowhere except itself, and consciously created and combined the molecules out of its non-molecular eternal energy; 2) mindless eternal energy, which has been creating molecules for ever and ever, and eventually chanced to hit upon a life-giving combination; 3) ever-changing inanimate matter, which has - or developed - a mental aspect that enabled it to experiment and eventually find a way of reproducing itself and evolving. I find all three answers impossible to believe, which is why I remain agnostic.-DAVID: An excellent list. I find 1) reasonable and logical; 2) this admits to eternal energy which is magically present from the beginning, but you have decided to make it mindless. Why not allow it to have a mind? That logically fits everything we know about our reality.-Why is mindless energy magic, but conscious energy reasonable and logical? We do not know the origin of consciousness/minds, but you insist that consciousness (earthly) can only be the result of deliberate invention, and so it is hardly logical to claim that consciousness (heavenly) does not require invention and has simply always existed.
 
DAVID: 3) is quite a stretch, and again begs the question where did innate [inanimate?] matter come from, since you admit something cannot come from nothing?

You claim that eternal energy consciously transformed itself into matter, and (3) claims that eternal energy transformed itself into matter which had or evolved consciousness. In both cases, matter came from energy. If you can believe in a non-invented form of consciousness (1), you can believe that consciousness evolved naturally without deliberate invention (2 or 3), which also fits everything we know about our reality, and does not require any other form of reality. Alternatively, like me, you can opt not to believe in any of these hypotheses.