Theoretical origin of life; making catalysts (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, June 21, 2015, 12:37 (3443 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Yes, but the information in a crystal is not the same as the information in a living one-celled organism. Where did that living coded information come from? I know you can't answer, because you will not accept the logical source, a mind.-dhw: All forms of life and non-life are full of information. I was merely pointing out that the information is there, whether the materials were assembled by chance or not. Where did anything and everything come from? None of us can answer, and a sourceless, living mind full of information is no more logical than sourceless, mindless energy and matter full of information.-DAVID: You are simply skirting the question. Living matter is filled with the information that makes organic molecules cooperate to create life. Your answer implies that chance could have created that information. Information is something which cannot come from nothing.-If I say the question cannot be answered, I can hardly be accused of skirting it. We began this discussion with my objection to the vague term “information”, but since you insist on using it, I can only repeat that the same information is present, whether the molecules were assembled by God or by chance. I agree that it cannot come from nothing. The alternative sources appear to be: 1) a sourceless mind, which acquired all the “information” from nowhere except itself, and consciously created and combined the molecules out of its non-molecular eternal energy; 2) mindless eternal energy, which has been creating molecules for ever and ever, and eventually chanced to hit upon a life-giving combination; 3) ever-changing inanimate matter, which has - or developed - a mental aspect that enabled it to experiment and eventually find a way of reproducing itself and evolving. I find all three answers impossible to believe, which is why I remain agnostic.