Theistic evolution vs. Darwinism (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, June 09, 2013, 22:11 (3973 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I would again say that energy and consciousness are inseparable, with the important proviso that while energy can exist without consciousness, consciousness cannot exist without energy.-I can't accept this blanket statement. When the universe appeared from the Big Bang, as 'matter' it was all energy in a quark soup, a very hot plasma, no particles, to find. As it cooled the quarks appeared and gradually coalesced into the larger particles, all of whom fit into famililes and can be described mathematically, which is how the LHC folks knew to look for the Higgs. This means that the energy suppied to make the universe had an underlying order. There was a hidden organization hidden by the enormous heat. Please tell me who or what organized the energy in advance? How did this simple hierarchy then deveop consciousness? 
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> dhw: Consciousness or "intelligence" according to this hypothesis does not "permeate all that is". It began as isolated pockets of intelligent energy within different forms of matter, but as the universe has evolved, so the number and variety of intelligences has expanded.-Who or what put the intelligence into the plasma? Why should hot plasma have any intelligence at all, unless the intellligence that made the heirarchy of energy forms preceeded the creation of the plasma?-> dhw: Evolution itself depends on their cooperation, and as they combine, so the scale, depth, knowledge, experience also expand. And maybe when the matter disintegrates and once more becomes energy, that energy might possibly retain all the knowledge and experience it had gathered during its habitation of matter (I'm linking up now with psychic experiences like NDEs).-I don't see the NDE link at all. And matter IS energy, all the time. Going back and forth is just changing the form of energy. Are you trying to propose that energy cannot learn anything unless it takes a form of matter? Convolution upon convolution.
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> dhw: David therefore begins with a single form of energy already, mysteriously, endowed with supreme self-awareness, and "purposeful in and of itself". My alternative begins with no consciousness followed, equally mysteriously, by pockets of energy in matter becoming intelligent, and then developing ever more complex forms of intelligence, leading to our own consciousness of consciousness of consciousness. These forms may all have their own individual purposes (hence every innovation), but there is no overall purpose guiding them.-The evolution of intelligence sounds like the Darwin theory of consciousness, which of course does not exist. The great charles was too smart to propose that one. Energy/matter/energy/matter learning all the time. Using our current model in each of our human existences, since I don't really know where it is hiding, developing intelligence requires learning, thinking, analyzing, using mental language, and concluding. How does energy/matter do this on its own? By energy natural selection?