Theistic evolution vs. Darwinism (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, May 23, 2013, 12:11 (3989 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Science cannot handle divine intervention, but the concept of the "intelligent cell" makes intervention unnecessary. The whole process of evolution is driven by interaction between the environment and God's inventive mechanism. The scenario fits in perfectly with Darwin's theory of common descent. And that, no doubt, is why he repeatedly insisted that his theory was compatible with religious belief.-DAVID: And that is where I sit. But again, it may not be automatic common descent, but may require intervention.-I like your caution. "May" is an auxiliary verb we agnostics are very fond of too. But at least now you have embraced the possibility that divine intervention may not have been necessary. We are making progress up our Mount Improbable!-dhw: However, I will now put on my agnostic hat and go one step further, since you are determined to impose your beliefs on the atheist Nagel. I don't think yours is the approach he's looking for at all. I think what he's after is that very same mechanism, designed not by your God but by different forms of intelligence which themselves evolved out of energy within changing matter. You might call this an atheistic variant of panpsychism.-DAVID: You are still inventing brilliant intelligence out of thin air. Raw energy at what level, by what mechanism can invent intelligence and thought? Pipe dream.-How you love to pounce on your own shadow! Your God is your invention of "brilliant intelligence out of thin air", and in defence of your pipe dream, you wrote on Monday, 20 May under "Innovation": "Yes I know there has to be the famous leap at first, but everything is so logical after that." I replied: "All three hypotheses demand an initial leap of faith, and then the world as we know it, or rather as we INTERPRET it (order for you, order and disorder for me), follows on quite logically from that particular starting point."-Belief in pipe dreams depends on leaps of faith (remember Marx: "Religion is the opium of the people"). Pipe dreamers are ill advised to criticize their fellow leapers of whatever creed for smoking pipes. That is the privilege of us non-leaping, non-smoking fence-sitters!