Theistic evolution vs. Darwinism (Introduction)

by David Turell , Tuesday, May 28, 2013, 03:07 (4198 days ago) @ dhw


> DAVID: Your raw energy, by no plan makes matter, which is somehow organized enough to invent intelligence.
> 
> dhw: Once more: matter does not INVENT intelligence. Energy makes matter. Matter changes. The energy within the matter BECOMES aware of the changes. ..... This is a concept I'm extending to all evolution, including the universe: individualized intelligence as energy which evolves through experience and is able to control matter from within -This theory looks exactly like the orgin of life theories. Life, as organic chemistry suddenly appears from inorganic matter, how we don't know, but it had to happen because we are here. Evolution is driven by intelligence in the genome as we agree, but as you noted in the other thread, we have no idea how. You want intelligence to grow by chance. No matter how you spin it it still sounds the same. Intelligence by chance arrival.-> 
> DAVID: I have to start with some type of organization.
> 
> dhw:Why do you "have" to start with organization? Why not start with disorder, and a gradual establishment of order (rules) through the experience and experiments of evolving intelligences?-What records experience and developing intelligence in disorder? The Second Law reqires the input of energy into order to avoid entropy, and you start with disordered energy. The whole thought is an oxymoron. -> 
> DAVID: I still hold to the position that your theory is simply a contorted version of mine. The only difference I see is your method of creation of intelligence and consciousness. I start with it at the beginning and you create it as things go along. We all get to the same end result. But to avoid God you sure get convoluted.-> dhw; The panpsychist hypothesis entails no such contortions. All it requires is matter (which we know exists), energy (which we know exists), and the single step by which energy within matter acquires awareness (which we know exists, though we don't know how it works.) If I believed in this, I would undoubtedly comment that to bring in God, you sure get convoluted.-But, simply put, there is no way you could possibly believe in this contrived theory and have faith in it. I understand your 'IF'. I don't have an 'if'. And the reason for your IF is the theory is one big contortion. Remember the folks who started the idea of panpsychism presumed an intelligent beginning. You have twisted their thinking all out of shape and into contortion.