Mat: Nibbana tangent part 2 (Agnosticism)

by David Turell , Tuesday, May 28, 2024, 23:39 (102 days ago) @ xeno6696

dhw: If by taking aim you mean criticizing, I do most certainly criticize the “doctrine” that encourages people to “lose all concept of self” and abandon all desires. No need to repeat the arguments. I do not criticize the concept of Nibanna. I’m trying to understand it. But clearly, if we reach the point where something is ineffable, it can’t be discussed with words, and so you can say that any verbalized conception is mistaken! All I have done is examine the words you have used, and extrapolate conclusions: if you tell me that Nibanna means that all concept of self disappears and there is no such thing as an eternal self, my conclusion is that you might as well be dead. (By the way, I don’t have a problem with eternal death. But since I love life, I'd like to delay my death as long as possible!)

DAVID: This last point is pure Adler. God is ineffable, and 'can't be discussed in words and so you can say that any verbalized conception is mistaken!'. Welcome to one of Adler's guiding points.

Matt: Well, to be fair, I did start in the beginning of this to state that religions have their 'mysteries', in Christianity it's the resurrection, in Buddhism it's Nibbana. The Buddha deliberately left undeclared what happens past that point. However, as I've also stated, from what I've experienced it doesn't 'feel' all that ineffable. That compass analogy.

I understand that feeling of yours, but the mystery I'm addressing is how our words directly react to God at His level of exitance.