Nibbana tangent part 2 (Agnosticism)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Thursday, May 16, 2024, 21:34 (158 days ago) @ dhw

MATT: I think though, I've found the spots that seem the most "sticky" to your thinking, "equanimity," and "attachment." I've hopefully filled out the definition for equanimity more fully, as well as filled out a little better the discussion on attachments. Just like with stoicism, the idea isn't to become robots, the idea is to have a better recognition for what's fleeting so you don't overidentify with those things and cause more suffering for yourself than you otherwise would have.

No, these are not the sticky points, but of course I agree that everything is fleeting, and my own philosophy is make the most of what is fleetingly available to you, enjoy it as much as you can, and help others to enjoy it too. What bugs me is still the notion that Nirvana – the Buddhist ideal – is actually death. I regard birth as a privilege, and I reject the religious concept of “original sin”, which seems to me to underlie the whole Buddhist concept of rebirth until you are “pure”, as if living is some kind of punishment as opposed to being a benefit and a privilege. The vague concept of post-death consciousness without individual identity - apart from a box of memories to be stored in the great nothingness - might just as well be post-death unconsciousness lying in a grave. But it’s clear from your posts that there is no fixed form of Buddhism, and I suspect that you share my “philosophy” above, and can find it in the various “scriptures”!

I mean, while all the various sects of Buddhism have different ideas about what Nibbana actually means, in none of them does it imply death. I don't think death is a relevant category in Buddhism at all. Right, if you study the cosmology, there are planes of existence that are entirely mind-made. As I mentioned before, death in one of the jhanic states means rebirth in those planes. The correlation in Buddhism to those states equate to actual pieces of the universe. I.E., if you go to the 1st Jhana, you're actually in "Brahma's world." For obvious reasons, I don't really buy into all that, but in Buddhism it is clear that in its cosmology, it sees no perceivable beginning or end to the universe, Nibbana isn't death, it just stops the cycle of rebirth that suffering causes. You will not take another physical form. You're simply freely liberated until the current universe cycle ends. This is why in some lesser-known sects of Buddhism, Buddha is worshipped like a God. (It's considered blasphemy, but that's never stopped people before.)

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"