Human evolution: we are entirely improbable (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 27, 2021, 12:55 (1406 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I am happy to agree with you and Hoyle that chance is illogical. Now look at your explanation: only a living, conscious mind can design life and consciousness, and therefore our life and consciousness were designed by a living, conscious mind which was not designed by anything at all. Logical? […]

DAVID: I'm forced to go back to simple principals, evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. The complexity of life requires a designing mind. Our minds are not equal to that mind but our appearance with our minds is not explained by any theory presented by humans. As for panpsychism as an undefined mental force, it is just a variation on the recognition mental activity is required and is a fudge factor in the debate.

dhw: With the bold, you have at last recognized that NONE of the theories presented by humans can explain our appearance with our minds or the appearance of elephants, whales, brontosauruses, eagles, ants or bacteria with their various minds. Do you not realize that the theory bolded at the beginning of this post – the illogicality of which you continue to ignore – of a universal, eternal, all-powerful, living conscious mind which was not designed by anything at all is a HUMAN theory? Thank you for confirming the logic that underlies agnosticism. But I do not wish to undermine your faith or anybody else’s. I am simply pointing out that neither you nor Dawkins should pretend that your respective faiths in God/mindless nature are based on science. You are of course both welcome to believe whatever you wish to believe!

DAVID: Neither you nor I have any logical absolute proof. That is why some of us jump Pascal's chasm and some of us don't. To me the evidence is overwhelming, but for you it isn't. As two different humans with two different background we come to different conclusions. That is certainly reasonable and logical.

Not quite. I do not come to one definite conclusion, whereas you do. This applies both to first cause and to theories of evolution. You claim that you have evidence “beyond a reasonable doubt” for your theories and dismiss any alternatives, but you do not or cannot provide any logical answers to my questions. That is why you have now dodged the bolded objection to your God theory at the start of this post!

DAVID: Ultimately despite years of debate we can not change each other. But I'll continue looking in the internet for new news to present as I have overwhelmed you with unexplained design in biological beings. I have an explanation that satisfies me. I'm sorry you are not satisfied.

I am as always hugely grateful for the news you offer us, without which this website would certainly have to close down. And I have no problem with the fact that your faith satisfies you. But I shall continue to probe your arguments if I find them illogical, and I shall continue to offer alternatives if I think they are logical. Such discussions are the purpose of any forum, as I’m sure you’ll agree.