Human evolution; early ancestor probable upright posture (Introduction)

by David Turell , Saturday, September 28, 2019, 15:45 (1673 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: epigenetic means nothing more than minor necessary adaptations. Otherwise OK.

dhw: We are making progress. You agree that your God (if he exists) gave organisms (cell communities) a degree of autonomous intelligence, but only to design minor adaptations. This autonomous intelligence can also be present in bacteria. The question then becomes where we draw the line between minor and major adaptations, and between major adaptations and innovations. The hypothesis I offer – just as unproven as your hypothesis of divine preprogramming/dabbling – is that the same mechanism is capable of designing all of them. Just clarifying again.

No progress. Epigenetics does not cause a new species. Something else must do it.

DAVID: The humans were not the only thing He wanted. he knew He needed the entire bush of life as support for the time evolution took. Humans were his final goal, and I firmly believe we are last.

dhw: In your theory, it wasn’t evolution that “took time” but your God who for some inexplicable reason DECIDED to wait 3.X billion years before starting to “evolve” (= specially design) the only thing he wanted to design, which was us.

Not my theory at all. History tells us how long evolution took, and God used that mechanism.

dhw: And he NEEDED (very different from “wanted”) the entire bush to COVER that time! Why do you keep ignoring your own precise account of the process: “He knew those designs were required interim goals to establish the necessary food supply to cover the time he knew he had decided to take.”

Of course!

dhw: But secondly, even if it were true that his one and only goal was to produce H. sapiens, you refuse to consider any logical explanation of the delay (e.g. experimentation), and so you believe he “had to” abide by the procedure bolded above, because you happen to know that he is in total control and he cannot possibly have any characteristics (such as the desire to experiment) in common with the humans you say he specially created.

My God does not need to experiment. His creations are quite complex: quantum mechanism and the origin of consciousness

DAVID: He very well could think like us, but it is only a guess, as your suppositions about His thoughts are.

dhw: Of course it’s a guess, just like the whole of your theory, bolded above, and what’s more yours is a guess which you yourself find inexplicable: “Haven’t you realized by now, I have no idea why God chose to evolve humans over time?” More importantly, since you now recognize that your God may very well think like us, please stop dismissing logical explanations purely on the grounds that you believe your God does NOT think like us.

Thank you, pure guesswork is poor support of theory.

dhw: It was you who wrote that the “tiny inconsequential lumbar change 21 million years ago […] didn’t change the lifestyle of that monkey and wasn’t necessary at that time”, which I take to mean valueless.

DAVID: Not valueless, but a tiny step toward the anticipated future.

dhw: You introduced the word “valueless”. I used the word "useless", which I think sums up inconsequential, not necessary, and not changing anything. And I still don’t understand why a God, who according to you can produce whole organs and organisms with a single dabble, should choose to dabble one single, useless vertebra to “anticipate” what he is going to design in the future.

Just admit it, you don't under stand your humanized God at all.

dhw: And it was you who wrote: Neanderthal genes affect our skin and immunity and are beneficial to us. A wise God would let various homo types to contribute to the final sapiens product by developing different appropriate responses to a variety of environmental issues."

DAVID: They assume there are such benefits as they noted. You are struggling to argue.

dhw: They make no such assumption: “But researchers cannot yet say how these archaic sequences affect people today, much less the humans who acquired them some 50,000–55,000 years ago." Besides, why couldn't a totally-in-control God enable the only desired species to develop different responses etc.? Oh, but I mustn't ask such questions, because although God might very well think like humans, you happen to know that he doesn't.

When God chose to evolve, He also used interbreeding. History shows his obvious methods. History of creation tells us how God did it, but you constantly ignore the history, whiole humanizing God's thinking