Pointy eggs and whales (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, August 27, 2018, 10:09 (84 days ago)

Shifted from "Junk DNA", which is no longer appropriate.

dhw: I must confess that I’m not sure about most of the things we discuss, and I really have no idea of the history of pointy eggs. It is clear that the species would not have survived without them. And so we go back to your theory that your God preprogrammed or dabbled (= "helped") every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder in order to balance nature so that life would continue until he could produce the brain of Homo sapiens. But I’ll be a real devil here, and suggest to you that even if the murre had gone extinct, our brain would still have evolved. And so, as with the turtle, I wonder why your God bothered with murres and pointy eggs. Alternatively, he may have designed a mechanism that would enable organisms to work out their own ways to cope with the environment. In which case, congratulations to the cell communities of the murre for pointy-shaping their cloacae and not having to join the other 90%+ of organisms that couldn’t cope.

TONY: I know you live your life with purpose and certainty. But in this area of 'theory of the immaterial' you are hoist onto your personal picket fence with both feet planted firmly in mid air.

Yes, that is the nature of agnosticism.

TONY: Can you show me that 90% of the birds that laid round eggs on cliffs died? Also, can you show me the 10% of birds of this variety with round nests on cliffs that did survive? Or evidence that they ever laid round eggs on these cliffs? Or perhaps you could show me two of the same species of birds that have the genetic differences needed to go from round egg to pointy, with the round egg layer being an older specimen?

Of course I can’t. NOBODY knows how speciation took place, and that is why we have different theories. Can you show me evidence that out of the blue your God created birds with pointy-shaped cloacae? In any case, if I remember rightly, you DON’T believe he did. Your view of life is that God created species in the broad sense, but not variations within species. So do please let us have your own theory to explain the pointy-shaped eggs.

TONY: What about 10% of the whales that did not go into the water but survived? Where did they go? Where is the record of them? And don't tell me another damn fairy tale that has no objective evidence, no record, no traceable, documented process that took them from form A to form B.

I never said anything about 10% that didn’t go into the water. But if it all began with a local crisis,I would assume that any pre-whales stuck on land would have died. We have fossils that show different stages of development from pre-whales to whales. Here is a website that traces all the known stages.

Whale Evolution - AMNH
https://www.amnh.org/.../whales-giants-of-the-deep/whale-evolution

TONY: Show me something that can be repeated in a lab, step-wise. We can manipulate DNA now, at will. Show me one, just one, scientist that has managed to make stepwise adjustments to DNA to take a creature from an amphibian to a reptile, or reptile to a bird or mammal. Hell, show me one that has managed to change one mammal into another. Hell, change one single celled organism into another single celled organism. Say, e coli to yeast.
In chemistry, we can prove the claims made by chemist by doing it. We have the technology now. So show me the evidence by reproducing the process. That is science.

Agreed. I make a similar point at the end of the “brief guide”. But how does this prove scientifically that organisms can spring from nowhere, as opposed to springing from other organisms, and “don't tell me another damn fairy tale that has no objective evidence, no record, no traceable, documented process.”

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