Genome complexity: what genes do and don't do (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 17:39 (1865 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Still the same problem. All of us are looking in from the outside. NO ONE knows the truth. It is all still opinion. Intelligent cell reactions are still 50/50: some degree of intelligence choice decisions or following intelligent instructions. Scientific conclusions are not by democratic vote, but by paradigm shifts (Kuhn).

dhw: Agreed. Let us then eagerly await the shift of paradigm through the discovery of programmes for whale flippers, cuttlefish camouflage, monarch migration and weaverbirds’ nests (multiply examples by a few billion) hidden inside the bacterial genome. Or possibly a shift of paradigm towards cellular intelligence.

I still view cells as incapable of designing their future, well beyond their capacities

DAVID: Gaps are still huge gaps. Poor Gould fought for years to explain them, and came up with punc inc, which still remains as a weird proposition. Species arrive de novo and no one knows why, based on natural events. There Are no intermediate forms, since the ones we find have huge gaps on either side.

d hw; Yes, we’ve been over this a hundred times. You suggest divine preprogramming or dabbling, and I suggest cellular intelligence. I trust you now agree that your God’s design of H. sapiens proceeded itty bitty by my definition.

Not at all. You are ignoring the facts. The gaps are huge and require design.

Under "Horizontal gene transfer"
DAVID: It can be physically obtained by needling another bacterium and seizing DNA:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-018-0174-y

QUOTE: "Natural transformation is a broadly conserved mechanism of horizontal gene transfer in bacterial species that can shape evolution and foster the spread of antibiotic resistance determinants, promote antigenic variation and lead to the acquisition of novel virulence factors.” (dhw’s bold)

DAVID: Bacteria can alter their responses with this mechanism, but, for example, E. coli will stay E. coli. Doesn't solve speciation.

dhw: Nobody has yet solved speciation, but if you believe that all species descended from other species, that does not mean that all their antecedents have to die out! Of course E.coli are still E.coli, just as apes are still apes. The proposal is that SOME single cells formed multicellular communities, and over billions of years SOME multicellular communities changed themselves into different multicellular communities. And since we now know that bacteria can change their responses, MAYBE that same mechanism is capable of producing “novel factors” which have “shaped evolution” (See the Behe thread)

As far as I am concerned speciation requires design. 99% of all species have disappeared, but bacteria are still here. Why? Current microbiome research shows those happy bugs are absolutely necessary for our life and health, which they seriously influence. Talk about an obvious purpose as to why they persisted. Paying attention to 'purpose' is always necessary in these discussions.