Genome complexity: what genes do and don't do (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, March 06, 2019, 19:14 (1878 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: If God front-loaded evolutionary information, what I see is that bacteria had excess to their own small part. As for how bacteria operate, they have only a small group of stimuli and have automatic responses to each. This does not remove the God dabbling as necessary.

dhw: For years now you have been telling us that your God provided the first unicellular forms of life with a computer programme for every single undabbled innovation etc. in the history of evolution. Now you are telling us that bacteria were only provided with a library for bacteria. ...Your library theory is literally falling to pieces.

Use your logic. My concept is that Bacteria are bacteria because their only genome access is the bacterial level of instructions. Different levels open up throughout evolution.

DAVID: You are right. Intelligent information/instructions and intelligent instructions as to how to interpret and use the instructions are all part of the ghost with all processes acting together like a giant symphony orchestra. All designed.

DAVID: Since bacteria have simple stimuli, they have a simple set of prescribed responses. Bacterial lives are simple. What do you mean with 'tricky situations'. Bacteria live very simple lives. Tell me about a tricky event you imagine. I note you have avoided the main point I made about bacteria , the constant complex automatic cell division cell division. Lenski's E. coli are still E coli. Following exact instructions for their biggest job.

dhw: I note you continue to avoid the question of how bacteria select God’s instructions on how to use his instructions – or do you really believe your God pops in to do a dabble every time they are in trouble?

Dabbling is always a possibility, but bacteria can only access what is meant for them to use.

dhw: Bacteria have been found in virtually every environment on earth. Each one demands special adaptation. And I am not “imagining” the health crisis that has arisen through the fact that they always find a solution to the tricky situations created by antibiotics. Millions of them die. God didn’t dabble to save them, or they didn’t receive the anti-antibiotic programme he is supposed to have installed 3.8 billion years ago. But eventually they come up with a solution. Yes, they remain themselves, and automatic cell division is an integral part of all life: once a system is successful, its accurate reproduction is essential to the survival of the system. And to anticipate your usual question, nobody knows how life, reproduction and the ability to adapt and to innovate (i.e. to restructure existing cell communities) first arose. One theory is that a universal mind we call God did the original engineering.

I agree.

Under “are bacteria truly independent?”
DAVID: In this instance bacteria appear to be mostly passive.

dhw: You would have thought that if individuals grouped together and thus achieved results they could not achieve as independent particles, it might be conceivable that they did so actively and intentionally. And the more often they do it, and the more successful they are, the more likely it might seem that they do it actively and intentionally.

DAVID: Having quorum sensing allows them to flow with the group. Automatic.

dhw: Wikipedia definition: Quorum sensing is the ability to detect and to respond to cell population density by gene regulation. […] Many species of bacteria use quorum sensing to coordinate gene expression according to the density of their local population. In similar fashion, some social insects use quorum sensing to determine where to nest.

No mention of the word “automatic”. Bacteria USE quorum sensing to detect and respond, to coordinate and to determine.

And I view it as automatic. Wikipedia is not authoritative, it is full of opinion You don 't know the background of that particular writer. Is he a Darwin follower?