Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 01:59 (1423 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Once again a flat space time predicts a heat death in 100 billion years with the universe tearing up.

dhw: I predict that in 100 billion years, the universe will still be here, eternally forming new combinations of energy and matter. And I hope you will support me in my bid for a grant to carry on with my invaluable work on predicting the unpredictable.

I use current science as the best possibility to know the future truth

DAVID: My discussion about the geometry of spacetime is to the point our current studies do not support some sort of continuing process back to infinity. Therefore a universe has to have a start. Just following pure science.

dhw: There are no “pure science” studies that can possibly prove or disprove eternity, and I strongly doubt whether we shall ever be able to reach the borders of the universe, even if it is not infinite. You have yourself demolished Hawking’s claim that “there is no before”, so I don’t know why you brought it up in the first place, or why you continue to defend it now.

DAVID: I did just the opposite with the Hawking celebration Guth, et al, paper. It offered proof there was no 'before' before the big bang.

dhw: And I argued that it was impossible to prove that there was no ‘before’, and you have agreed (bolded above). So I don’t know why you brought it up, or why you continue to argue that current studies reject “some sort of continuing progress back to infinity” (I would say here “back to eternity”) and the universe has to have had a start.

I agree, and something or someone started it.