Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Sunday, September 27, 2020, 16:38 (1279 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Sunday, September 27, 2020, 16:50

dhw: We agree on convergence, which is not an issue between us. Whether God designed every example of convergence or gave cells the intelligence to solve each problem as it arose IS an issue, but this has nothing to do with bad viruses and bacteria and the good folk of Cape Verde having evolved a defence against malaria. You are dodging again.

DAVID: How do you know the Cape Verde folks didn't have a chance lucky mutation? No God. It happens.

dhw: I’m sure the Darwinians you despise so much will be delighted at your belief in the beneficial powers of chance mutations. As you said in the early days of our discussion on errors, when these could change the course of evolution: “What is wrong with a random chance mutation, if it fits God’s plan to be allowed to pass through??? Chance can play a role!!!” You hurriedly withdrew that when you realized the implications, but now you are happy to accept a random mutation which solves a problem that neither your God’s “backups” nor our finest scientists have been able to solve. I’m not discounting chance, but I reckon intelligent cells are a more likely explanation.

You endlessly review past history and distort it. In evolution I said a chance beneficial mutation but not exactly what God wanted could be allowed. Still feel that way. But DARC is a chance mutation with no species change. The modified hemoglobin mutation accidently thwarts malaria while it is damaging hemoglobins. Pure Behe theory, which he has covered!


dhw: I seem to be the one who detects purpose, while you endow your God with less and less control: off go the molecules, disobeying your God’s instructions, and now we have beneficial mutations resulting from chance.

DAVID: I have God in full control of his systems, other than molecular errors while living. I've said above the Cape Verdian mutation could well be chance. But this is not full blown evolution of species, which my 'original theory' concerned, only an adaptation, which go on all the time, mainly epigenetically. Don't overstep your argument. God speciates.

dhw: You have identified two forms of error in the system: evolutionary and disease-causing. You do not have your God in full control of his systems if he can’t control the errors that cause disease! You kept talking about backups which sometimes succeed and sometimes don’t. Now we have random mutations which succeed where your God failed. As far as evolution is concerned, do you or do you not accept that adaptation goes ahead without your God’s intervention? If so, do you or do you not accept that (theistic version) your God must have created a mechanism enabling cells to change their structure in accordance with the demands of the environment?

God controls evolution by designing the new genomes in each subsequent stage. The bold is total distortion of my presentation. After evolution has ended in an existing species, H. sapiens, a chance mutation, DARC, creates a damaged imperfect hemoglobin and accidently thwarts malaria. Another of this type accident, sickle cell, causes severe disease in the homozygous. Sickle cell reduces oxygen carrying capacity. I can't find a study on DARC handling oxygen. I do not believe God arranged for the accident. Hemoglobin happens to contain a large number of mutations of no consequence.


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