Logic and evolution (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, July 23, 2016, 10:24 (1068 days ago) @ David Turell

David: Cells do have control over their genes, without any sense of thought.
dhw: Adaptations may sometimes be accompanied by loss of information. That does not and cannot mean that loss of information is RESPONSIBLE for innovation. Yes, cells have all these abilities, as championed by Shapiro. And they may well have a “sense of thought”, as championed by Shapiro.

DAVID: All Shapiro really says is that they have the ability to rewrite their genome when necessary. That these processes are fully regulated is stated on page 69 of his book. He discusses 'genome shock' and gives several pages of known examples ( I estimate about 100). He never mentions the cells are thinking, only reacting in their genomes.

You seem to think that Shapiro only ever said one thing about cells. Here for the umpteenth time is something else he says about cells: “Living cells and organisms are cognitive (sentient) entities that act and interact purposefully to ensure survival, growth and proliferation. They possess corresponding sensory, communication, information-processing, and decision-making capabilities.” (p. 143, Evolution: A View from the 21st Century). Please don't tell me that by cognitive, sentient, purposeful, decision-making etc., he actually means automatically obeying God's instructions. And as I have reminded you umpteen plus a hundred times, when asked in an interview why the concept of the intelligent cell is controversial, he responded: “Large organisms chauvinism.”

DAVID: I would note that cells can only react with their available molecular reactions that are onboard, which in your view may well be God given, and I agree.

My view is that their autonomous intelligence may well be God-given (50/50), and I would not define intelligence as “their available molecular reactions”.

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