Logic and evolution (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, July 20, 2016, 12:31 (731 days ago) @ BBella

BBELLA: Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me, all matter is just matter. So wouldn't that make all information no more than differing combinations of matter? Meaning: there is no such thing as "new information" just new combinations of matter?

Dhw: It is the new combinations of matter that provide new information. But that is why I consider it absurd to suggest that a new invention can occur without there being new information, and I would even extend that to adaptation, since that always entails organisms changing their internal information in order to cope with the new external information coming from changed conditions (see the discussion on bacterial resistance to antibiotics).

BBELLA: After researching a bit, I finally wrapped my mind around where you both are coming from and can now see the term "new information" from your perspective. A certain combination of matter may have never existed before in certain combinations so holds new information about that new combination. Example: Genetically modified plants.
I was thinking more from the perspective of matter and energy combinations still being matter and energy - nothing new there! But I now see what you mean by new info.

Thank you. Unfortunately, David still disagrees:

DAVID: Why do you resist the scientific information which tells us that many adaptations are shown to occur with a loss of information? Yes loss is a change, and a new arrangement of the existing information, but not 'new' information. I agree with you that new species may require new information which is why I suggest that God dabbles.

I do not resist it at all. Some adaptations do incur loss of information and some do not. So what? Until you explain what you mean by “all the information needed for evolution”, I will go on pointing out that even adaptation requires adjustment to new external information, and external information is information. And just as a new arrangement of existing matter provides new information, the new instructions required to deal with it (a new “arrangement of existing information”) constitute new information. Whether this is also accompanied by (see my other post) a loss of non-relevant information makes no difference.

I agree with the rest of your post.

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