Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, September 27, 2020, 12:07 (1517 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: My suggestion about bacteria and viruses is that most of them have purposeful functions, as you know.

dhw: There is no disagreement here. The question is why a God who wishes us no harm would design the harmful bacteria and viruses.

DAVID: Again, theodicy. It comes down to God knowing what He is doing, even as we can question why.

I have no doubt that if God exists, he knows what he is doing. It is you who have put together the above two premises which don’t make sense, so maybe YOU don’t know what he is doing. See the "errors" post.

dhw: We agree on convergence, which is not an issue between us. Whether God designed every example of convergence or gave cells the intelligence to solve each problem as it arose IS an issue, but this has nothing to do with bad viruses and bacteria and the good folk of Cape Verde having evolved a defence against malaria. You are dodging again.

DAVID: How do you know the Cape Verde folks didn't have a chance lucky mutation? No God. It happens.

I’m sure the Darwinians you despise so much will be delighted at your belief in the beneficial powers of chance mutations. As you said in the early days of our discussion on errors, when these could change the course of evolution: “What is wrong with a random chance mutation, if it fits God’s plan to be allowed to pass through??? Chance can play a role!!!” You hurriedly withdrew that when you realized the implications, but now you are happy to accept a random mutation which solves a problem that neither your God’s “backups” nor our finest scientists have been able to solve. I’m not discounting chance, but I reckon intelligent cells are a more likely explanation.

dhw: I seem to be the one who detects purpose, while you endow your God with less and less control: off go the molecules, disobeying your God’s instructions, and now we have beneficial mutations resulting from chance.

DAVID: I have God in full control of his systems, other than molecular errors while living. I've said above the Cape Verdian mutation could well be chance. But this is not full blown evolution of species, which my 'original theory' concerned, only an adaptation, which go on all the time, mainly epigenetically. Don't overstep your argument. God speciates.

You have identified two forms of error in the system: evolutionary and disease-causing. You do not have your God in full control of his systems if he can’t control the errors that cause disease! You kept talking about backups which sometimes succeed and sometimes don’t. Now we have random mutations which succeed where your God failed. As far as evolution is concerned, do you or do you not accept that adaptation goes ahead without your God’s intervention? If so, do you or do you not accept that (theistic version) your God must have created a mechanism enabling cells to change their structure in accordance with the demands of the environment?

Our threads are overlapping, but I don't have time now to combine them.