Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, December 24, 2020, 15:40 (1429 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I can accept the argument for a “first cause”, but the rest makes me squirm, even though I am not an atheist. A causeless supreme intelligence is no more likely than a causeless universe of constantly changing matter and energy, in which an eternity and infinity of combinations has eventually thrown together the rudimentary ingredients for life and intelligence. (The big bang theory is irrelevant, since we cannot know what preceded it, if it happened.) […]

DAVID: I didn't comment, because I agree with most of it, and had nothing to add. But the bolded statement makes me comment. The BB is directly estimated at 13.78 bya. The science community in general accepts something started this current universe at that time, and it is not irrelevant.

dhw: It is irrelevant because we do not know what preceded it! You say your eternal, thinking, first-cause God preceded it and caused it; I say maybe a first-cause eternal universe of constantly changing matter and energy preceded it and caused it.

Irrelevant only in your philosophy. The fact that this current universe had a timed appearance which is unexplained is entirely relevant. At Hawking's 70th birthday conference it was fully accepted in a Guth, etc. article there is no before, before the big Bang. Further you are describing a theory known as a 'Big Bounce' which requires a curved universe spacetime and this one is measured as flat.