DAVID: Cosmology: milky way size is enormous (Introduction)

by David Turell , Tuesday, July 02, 2019, 19:08 (1972 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: You have forgotten that I have no problem with your faith in the existence of God, or with the argument for design. The entire problem in all these discussions is your fixed beliefs that although he is all powerful (no limitations), always knows exactly what he is doing, and is in total control of everything (except human free will), he specially designed every non-life-bearing galaxy and specially pre-programmed or dabbled every non-human life form, lifestyle and natural wonder, and he did so with the sole purpose of producing H. sapiens; you have no idea why he would have chosen this method of producing the only thing he wanted to produce, and you do not know of any theistic scientists, scholars or philosophers who insist on the above combination of fixed beliefs. I’m sorry, but my being an agnostic does not disqualify me from pointing out logical flaws in your arguments or from speculating (nobody can do more than that) on possible alternative theistic explanations of life’s history, none of which are any more or less “human” than your own.

DAVID: You refuse to accept that I think God chose to evolve each of His goals: a universe, the Earth, and life. That He made the choice is obvious. It is the history we see. As you don your theist hat, you suggest God did everything wrong.

dhw: No, no, no, no, no! I also believe in evolution, and so if there is a God, I also believe that he would have used evolution as his method to achieve his purpose! You simply refuse to acknowledge that the difference between us lies in your personal and disjointed interpretation of his purpose and method of achieving that purpose, as detailed above!

If you accept that God did it the way He did, why is his method disjointed? I simply follow the history, and you cannot deny that the current endpoint product, humans, represents His purpose as it currently exists

DAVID: My conclusions are a constellation of ideas and observations of scientists and philosophers I have studied. It is clear that the ID scientists I follow believe God designed evolution, even if the word 'God' is never mentioned. Adler, Ed Fesser and other philosophers support my theistic views. There are no logical flaws in my thinking once I start with my initial statement that God chose his method of creation. What is present in our observations in no way negates that view. You humanized view of God is that He muddled his way along.

dhw: These scientists support your view that there is a God who designed evolution. Once again, they do not offer any support to your combination of fixed beliefs that your God specially designed every single life form, econiche, lifestyle and natural wonder, and that he did so for the sole purpose of getting organisms to eat or not eat one another until he specially designed the only thing he wanted to design, which was H. sapiens.

I do not have a single view of God. I offer different views, each of which you acknowledge fits in logically with the history. I don’t think you need me to repeat the list.

To repeat: the ID folks believe there was designer who designed everything in evolution. My theory is simply an extension of their declared belief. Since your knowledge of their writings is very second-hand, I cannot see how you can comment on their thoughts as you do.