DAVID: Cosmology: milky way size is enormous (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, June 30, 2019, 15:47 (1974 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I’m sorry, but I am applying my human reasoning to YOUR human reasoning. You tell us that the whole universe is finely tuned for life. The only life we know of is that which exists in our galaxy. I therefore maintain that the argument can only be that our galaxy is fine tuned for life. You tell us that your God designed the whole universe in order to create H. sapiens. I then ask why, in that case, would he design billions of non-life-bearing galaxies. You don’t know. So maybe it is your human interpretation of your God’s reasoning that is at fault! You don’t know his reasoning any more than I do, but because of your fixed beliefs you constantly attempt to impose your reasoning on him and object if I point out its unreasonableness.

DAVID: Our galaxy was made under the primary rules that created the universe. The fine tuning applies to the whole universe according to the cosmologists. The Milk Way happens to have a special adaptation for the position of the Earth which also happens to be a very special planet, but life could not appear without the initial conditions of the universe which allow life. As for my conclusions about God being in charge. If I conclude, and I have, that God creates by evolution, as I've stated for the universe, for the Earth and for life, then He is seen by me as in charge, and the history of each evolution represents what God did. Your argument is then what God did was wrong. You are arguing with God, not me. I am consistent within my beliefs, starting with He runs things.

dhw: You have clearly forgotten that you have fixed beliefs, and these depend on faith. You simply cannot answer the question why your God would have created billions of small galaxies incapable of allowing life if his sole purpose was to create human beings, just as you cannot answer the question why he would have created millions of different, non-human life forms if humans were his one and only purpose. Your answer is always: that is what he did. If he exists, yes, the universe and the history of life are the result of what he did. But this does NOT fit in logically with the one and only purpose of creating humans! In both cases – if he exists – a logical explanation (as you keep agreeing) is either a free-for-all (let’s see what happens if...) or experimentation (I’d like to produce life...a being a bit like me that I might have a relationship with...). But your fixed beliefs won’t allow you even to contemplate such a God (see “Unanswered questions”), and so you insist that your reading of his mind, purpose and method is correct, even though you have “no idea” why he would choose such a method to fulfil such a purpose.

You have forgotten I started out like you, an agnostic, but unlike you I was what I would call a soft agnostic, simply accepting what medical school taught me about living beings. And that included evolution as a natural occurrence. Once I delved into what I would call evidence, it became obvious to me God had to exist. I do not have the possibility of thinking of God as you do, partially humanized, and I think that is what partially keeps you as an agnostic. You want to understand God's personal thoughts as means of possibly accepting He exists while harboring extreme doubts. It is no wonder we do not come together. We are worlds apart in our individual thoughts. I've developed faith and you can't.