dhw: Evolution and humans: Neanderthal lungs larger (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 02, 2018, 18:02 (2181 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Your probability supposition is only is only an extrapolation of the use of our brain. If we have a brain we logically have independent thinking and the freedom to do as we will. Could God have given us a consciousness with a brain and put a governor on our thoughts? Silly idea!

dhw: I presume you mean our special human brain – otherwise all organisms with a brain have independent thinking and the freedom to do as they will, which has always been quite contrary to your beliefs.

Not true. My dog makes conscious choices all the time: eat, not eat, play, not play, etc.

dhw: But you are missing the point. Once more: If your God was prepared to sacrifice control over human behaviour, it is equally possible that he might have been prepared to sacrifice control over how organisms evolve. Given the history of life as we know it, this theistic hypothesis is just as likely as the hypothesis that “He still remains in full control”. See the next important exchange.

How a brain works and whether it has free will or not is at a consciousness level, not a body adaptation level of evolution. I don't think your stretch from one level to another makes any sense at all.

dhw: Thank you. Yes, I do ask why whales exist if your God’s single purpose was “the creation of humans” (Thursday 29 November). Every organism and econiche is part of the comings-and-goings of life’s history, and this would be true whether your God designed them or not. The only problem here is [I should now change that to “was” – dhw] your insistence that he specially designed whales and webs and weaverbirds as “stepping stones” to the fulfilment of his single purpose - his specially designed humans. But now apparently he didn’t. He specially designed them to be part of life, different econiches and evolution, so that there could be life, different econiches and evolution. Nothing more, and nothing to do with single-purpose humans. We are coming closer together! Who knows, one day you may also concede the possibility that whales, webs, weaverbirds and humans all evolved as a response to changing econiches instead of being specially designed in advance of the changes. But perhaps I'm being over optimistic!

DAVID: Very over optimistic. Econiches supply energy for life so it can evolve. No change in my view.

dhw: No change in my agreement that without econiches supplying energy, life could not have continued and evolved. But now that you have agreed that 50,000 spider webs, whale fins and weaverbirds’ nests were not stepping stones to humans, we are just left with the question of why your God must have designed every innovation in advance of any need for it. Wouldn’t life and econiches have continued to evolve, with all their comings and goings, if he had given organisms their own means of responding to environmental change instead of him preparing the lucky ones in advance?

That is logical if God supplied the necessary engineering design instructions to cover the really insurmountable gaps of the fossil record. Understanding needs of the future are required for design, for example as mammals hopped into the water. You are still hoping that tiny adaptations can somehow bridge the gaps. That is pure unadulterated faith in Darwinism.