Evolution and humans: all over Africa (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, October 09, 2017, 14:58 (2600 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Balance of nature allows for the time involved.

dhw: Which, as we have agreed over and over again, means there will be some sort of balance of nature so long as life exists. Nothing to do with the production of the human brain, without which there would STILL be some sort of balance in nature.

Your reasoning leaves out the point of view that the human brain appeared but without a necessary reason, based on environmental pressures.

DAVID: Whales contribute to the ocean's balance of nature. That has been shown.

dhw: You have agreed you don’t know why your God needed eight stages to produce whales, and they – like most organisms that have existed and/or died out as the balance of nature keeps changing – have no connection with the production of the human brain. Do you seriously believe your God could not have produced humans if he hadn’t first designed eight stages of whale, the toxin-eating snake, the weaverbird’s nest etc.?

I view it as God's choice to allow for evolution as a prolonged process requiring balance of nature. I've told you I don't know if God can directly create. No scientific evidence of it.

DAVID: Some of the unanswerable points have no answers I can logically arrive it. Can't answer doesn't mean I've failed. If I find your suppositions as illogical in view of my acceptance of God, so be it.

dhw: You have agreed that my evolutionary hypotheses (not suppositions), based on a hypothetical acceptance of God, fit in with the facts as we know them. They answer all the questions you cannot answer, so what do you find illogical?

I feel I see God's purpose differently than you do. Your general purpose for God is to create a spectacle. I find that superficial. God wanted us to be able to think of Him.

DAVID: Unfortunately we are discussing evolution in a vacuum. My faith in God is based on much more than that one aspect of God's work. Those considerations are the content of both of my books which you have read. No need to represent all of them here. I find my view of evolution as logical. You just can't accept the bush is God's choice.

dhw: If God exists, my theistic hypothesis is precisely that the bush IS his choice. Once more: he CHOSE to design an autonomous mechanism which he knew would produce a bush – not just one single species (though he might have done a dabble to produce us, or to throw Chixculub at the dinosaurs) but the whole vast variety of species, lifestyles and natural wonders that have come and gone throughout life’s history. And yet again, I accept that your faith in God is based on a powerful argument for design as well as certain psychic phenomena. But your view of evolution is not based on your faith in God – it is based on your belief that God’s mind works in a way which even you cannot explain logically. “Can’t answer” doesn’t mean you’ve failed; it simply means that your hypothesis might be wrong, and a hypothesis that CAN answer might be right.

You raise the issue of can we have a full logical insight into God's intentions and thoughts. We can only approach this from what we see He produced, not just life's evolution but the universe, Earth, etc. I do the best I can, and I identify purpose as best I can.