dhw: Evolution and humans: Neanderthal lungs larger (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, November 23, 2018, 19:06 (2190 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The spiders are part of the diversity of life for the formation of econiches which allow everyone who continues to evolve to eat and have the ability to have the energy to do that.

dhw: Of course they are part of the diversity of life, but the econiches only allow everyone to eat until they do not allow everyone to eat, and then the econiches change. That does not make them stepping stones to humans.

As usual ignoring the length of time required for evolution to reach the goal of humans. Of course econiches change, but they still continuously provide energy which evolving life requires.

DAVID: The spiders are one tiny part of the millions of stepping stones to humans in the diversity of life that evolves to humans. Be sticking to one example you are obviously missing the whole point of the concept of God's use of evolution to evolve humans and distorting my concept for your purpose of debate.

dhw: I have offered you example after example. You cannot explain how spiders’ webs, monarch butterflies, camouflaged fish, the weaverbird’s nest and every other life form, lifestyle and natural wonder extinct and extant in the history of life provide(d) stepping stones to humans! It is the concept that God used all of these in order to evolve humans that is illogical, which is why you say your God’s logic is different from ours. This is not for the purpose of debate but for the purpose of putting together a coherent explanation for the history of life as we know it.

All the examples simply show the diversity of life that creates the econiches. The diversity did not create humans, evolution did as controlled by God. How you twist the reasoning!

DAVID: I have yet to see you present a logical purposeful activity of God.

dhw: Then let me yet again repeat my theistic hypothesis: that a single mind (your God) needs something to keep itself occupied. It therefore creates the mechanisms for life, reproduction and evolution as an ever changing spectacle, which it watches unfolding in different ways (diversity), perhaps occasionally dabbling when it feels like doing so. Although you don’t like it, that is a logical purposeful activity, which you have repeatedly agreed fits in with the history of life as we know it.

Again, you dredge up the psychological concept of 'pass timing' applied to all humans. Find an activity for your mind when it has nothing to do and perhaps you are getting bored. I've never agreed to that mechanism behind God's action. What I have agreed to is God acted to create life in the way you describe, not his possible motives for self-entertainment as the impetus.

DAVID: I am convinced God designed evolution until we arrived. As for humans as the endpoint, have you considered we are in charge of the Earth now, and any further evolution is subject to how we allow it. There are very concerned philosophical articles on the subject.

dhw: Yes, you are convinced of your anthropocentric interpretation of evolution, but since you can find no logical explanation, you tell us that God’s logic is different from ours. Nobody has a clue where evolution will lead us over the next few billion years, so it is impossible to talk of an “endpoint”. To a certain extent we are in charge, but as things stand we are still helpless when Nature exerts its powers (tsunamis, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions), not to mention the sort of catastrophe that could come to us from outer space. As for us, I think you’ll find that even non-philosophers are very concerned about what humans are doing to the environment, to our fellow animals, and to ourselves. I don’t know why you think this means your God specially designed 50,000 spider webs etc. etc. as stepping stones to humans.

Your usual convoluted non-answer to the point that only evolution controlled by humans is what the future will see. Yes there are natural events that create dangers. we are studying asteroids to learn how to control them. We are studying volcanoes to have the proper warnings. God gave us the brain power to solve these problems. And the stepping
stones to humans are life's complexity, as explained by food supply, another subject you talk around. Remember I think God manages a controlled evolution. You are still partial Darwinist, while disavowing a portion of his theory, as in your hypothesis that some how minor adaptation shows organisms can perform major adaptations in major changes in environmental living conditions. That is pure Darwin wishful thinking.