Brain complexity: study results very incomplete (Introduction)
The critics point out that we really don't know much about the brain, because its overall activity is ignored when studying specific areas, and the whole brain is generally always active:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/neuroscience-critics-learn-how-brain-waves-link-to-speec...
"Poeppel and his co-authors carried on this tradition in a paper that appeared in Neuron last year. In it, they review ways in which overreliance on the “compelling” tools for manipulating and measuring the brain can lead scientists astray. Many types of experiments, for example, try to map specific patterns of neural activity to specific behaviors — by showing, say, that when a rat is choosing which way to run in a maze, neurons fire more often in a certain area of the brain. But those experiments could easily overlook what’s happening in the rest of the brain when the rat is making that choice, which might be just as relevant. Or they could miss that the neurons fire in the same way when the rat is stressed, so maybe it has nothing to do with making a choice. Worst of all, the experiment could ultimately be meaningless if the studied behavior doesn’t accurately reflect anything that happens naturally: A rat navigating a laboratory maze may be in a completely different mental state than one squirming through holes in the wild, so generalizing from the results is risky. Good experimental designs can go only so far to remedy these problems.
"The common rebuttal to his criticism is that the huge advances that neuroscience has made are largely because of the kinds of studies he faults. Poeppel acknowledges this but maintains that neuroscience would know more about complex cognitive and emotional phenomena (rather than neural and genomic minutiae) if research started more often with a systematic analysis of the goals behind relevant behaviors, rather than jumping to manipulations of the neurons involved in their production. If nothing else, that analysis could help to target the research in productive ways.
***
"The auditory and speech motor activities did stay entrained, but only up to about 5 hertz. Once the audio changed faster than spoken language typically does, the motor cortex dropped out of sync. A computational model later confirmed that these results were consistent with the idea that the motor cortex has its own internal oscillator that naturally operates at around 4 to 5 hertz.
"These complex results vindicate the researchers’ behavior-linked approach in several ways, according to Poeppel and Assaneo. Their equipment monitors 160 channels in the brain at sampling rates down to 1 hertz; it produces so much neurophysiological data that if they had simply looked for correlations in it, they would have undoubtedly found spurious ones. Only by starting with information drawn from linguistics and language behavior — the observation that there is something special about signals in the 4-to-5-hertz range because they show up in all spoken languages — did the researchers know to narrow their search for meaningful data to that range. And the specific interactions of the auditory and motor cortices they found are so nuanced that the researchers would never have thought to look for those on their own."
Comment: The point is we need to look more at whole brain studies, not just specific areas.
Complete thread:
- New brain complexity -
David Turell,
2013-10-29, 14:38
- Brain complexity: interpreting speech -
David Turell,
2014-01-31, 00:48
- Brain complexity: connections available -
David Turell,
2014-06-05, 21:45
- Brain complexity: circadian rhythm -
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2014-11-06, 18:11
- Brain complexity: circadian rhythm -
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2014-11-07, 06:31
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2014-11-07, 06:31
- Brain complexity: circadian rhythm -
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2014-11-06, 18:11
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David Turell,
2014-06-05, 21:45
- New brain complexity: changing responses -
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2014-09-04, 16:22
- New brain complexity: mapping -
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2014-11-17, 15:11
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2014-11-18, 15:34
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2014-12-09, 00:32
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2015-02-20, 01:07
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2015-03-01, 15:46
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2015-05-05, 17:56
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2015-07-07, 19:25
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2015-07-17, 16:10
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2015-07-18, 00:58
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2015-07-21, 11:49
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2015-07-24, 15:50
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2015-07-24, 19:17
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2015-09-04, 01:40
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2015-10-01, 18:01
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2015-10-02, 12:28
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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2015-10-02, 14:27
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dhw,
2015-10-03, 12:16
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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2015-10-03, 15:22
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-04, 12:46
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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2015-10-05, 00:04
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- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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2015-10-05, 14:11
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2015-10-06, 20:10
- Brain complexity: a review - David Turell, 2015-10-07, 14:16
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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2015-10-07, 20:38
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
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2015-10-09, 21:59
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- Brain complexity: not at all a computer -
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2016-08-26, 20:29
- Brain complexity: importance analyzed -
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2016-10-06, 19:24
- Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration -
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2016-10-07, 16:13
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2016-10-08, 12:38
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2016-10-08, 15:23
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2016-10-09, 12:55
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2017-01-02, 00:50
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2017-01-04, 15:15
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2017-05-18, 17:48
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2017-05-31, 20:31
- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
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2017-06-13, 05:25
- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
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- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
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- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
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2017-08-09, 19:30
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2017-08-10, 22:32
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David Turell,
2017-08-17, 18:23
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2017-11-06, 20:35
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
dhw,
2017-11-07, 13:45
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
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2017-11-07, 14:29
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
dhw,
2017-11-08, 13:03
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
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2017-11-08, 14:01
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David Turell,
2017-11-14, 18:32
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dhw,
2017-11-15, 13:03
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
David Turell,
2017-11-15, 14:38
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dhw,
2017-11-16, 14:02
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
David Turell,
2017-11-16, 18:14
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dhw,
2017-11-17, 14:56
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
David Turell,
2017-11-17, 18:16
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks - David Turell, 2017-11-18, 01:17
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
dhw,
2017-11-18, 12:58
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
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2017-11-18, 19:20
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dhw,
2017-11-19, 14:39
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
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2017-11-19, 15:29
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dhw,
2017-11-20, 13:58
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2017-11-20, 18:22
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dhw,
2017-11-21, 14:44
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2017-11-21, 15:33
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dhw,
2017-11-22, 13:37
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2017-11-22, 15:54
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dhw,
2017-11-23, 14:09
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2017-11-23, 16:07
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2017-11-24, 01:08
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
dhw,
2017-11-24, 13:57
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
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2017-11-24, 15:21
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
dhw,
2017-11-25, 08:54
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
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2017-11-25, 18:48
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
dhw,
2017-11-26, 13:52
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
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2017-11-26, 19:20
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
David Turell,
2017-11-26, 19:20
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
dhw,
2017-11-26, 13:52
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
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2017-11-25, 18:48
- Brain complexity: more important than size -
dhw,
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- Brain complexity: more important than size -
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2017-11-24, 15:21
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dhw,
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2017-11-24, 01:08
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2017-11-23, 16:07
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2017-11-22, 15:54
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dhw,
2017-11-22, 13:37
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2017-11-21, 15:33
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dhw,
2017-11-21, 14:44
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2017-11-20, 18:22
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dhw,
2017-11-20, 13:58
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
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2017-11-19, 15:29
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dhw,
2017-11-19, 14:39
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2017-11-18, 19:20
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2017-11-17, 18:16
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dhw,
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2017-11-16, 18:14
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dhw,
2017-11-16, 14:02
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
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2017-11-15, 14:38
- Brain complexity: learning new tasks -
dhw,
2017-11-15, 13:03
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David Turell,
2017-11-14, 18:32
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
David Turell,
2017-11-08, 14:01
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
dhw,
2017-11-08, 13:03
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
David Turell,
2017-11-07, 14:29
- Brain complexity: multiple neuron types -
dhw,
2017-11-07, 13:45
- Brain complexity: synapse signal controls found -
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2017-08-17, 18:23
- Brain complexity: methylation of DNA type cells -
David Turell,
2017-08-10, 22:32
- Brain complexity: mapping circuits -
David Turell,
2017-08-09, 19:30
- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
David Turell,
2017-06-13, 19:48
- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
David Turell,
2017-06-13, 17:45
- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
dhw,
2017-06-13, 11:34
- Brain complexity:multidimensional areas in neocortex -
David Turell,
2017-06-13, 05:25
- Brain complexity: evolutionary path from the Cambrian -
David Turell,
2017-05-31, 20:31
- Brain complexity: response variability -
David Turell,
2017-05-18, 17:48
- Brain complexity: baby brains under study -
David Turell,
2017-01-13, 20:32
- Brain complexity: human specialized neurons -
David Turell,
2017-01-04, 15:15
- Brain complexity: doing two things simultaneously -
David Turell,
2017-01-02, 00:50
- Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration -
dhw,
2016-10-09, 12:55
- Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration -
David Turell,
2016-10-08, 15:23
- Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration -
dhw,
2016-10-08, 12:38
- Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration -
David Turell,
2016-10-07, 16:13
- Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration -
David Turell,
2016-10-06, 19:24
- Brain complexity: importance analyzed -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 14:30
- Brain complexity: calcium necessary for memory -
David Turell,
2016-08-26, 20:29
- Brain complexity: many dedicated areas -
David Turell,
2016-07-21, 15:08
- Brain complexity: how words are handled -
David Turell,
2016-05-19, 13:02
- Brain complexity: not at all a computer -
David Turell,
2016-05-18, 15:11
- Brain complexity: roles of dopamine neurons -
David Turell,
2016-04-29, 02:08
- Brain complexity: roles of dopamine neurons -
David Turell,
2016-04-25, 18:51
- Brain complexity: essay on the complexity -
dhw,
2016-03-26, 13:24
- Brain complexity: essay on the complexity -
David Turell,
2016-03-25, 18:43
- Brain complexity: essay on the complexity -
dhw,
2016-03-25, 13:25
- Brain complexity: essay on the complexity -
David Turell,
2016-03-24, 14:50
- Brain complexity: essay on the complexity -
dhw,
2016-03-24, 13:13
- Brain complexity: essay on the complexity -
David Turell,
2016-03-22, 18:40
- Brain complexity: stitching sight -
David Turell,
2016-03-21, 17:52
- Brain complexity: stimulating synapses -
David Turell,
2016-03-20, 14:52
- Brain complexity: NO and CO influence brain function -
David Turell,
2016-03-06, 13:49
- Brain complexity: 50 types of neurons -
David Turell,
2016-03-04, 01:17
- Brain complexity: evolves in spurts? -
David Turell,
2016-02-09, 20:44
- Brain complexity: estimate of capacity increased -
David Turell,
2016-02-08, 19:32
- Brain complexity: forming cortex folds -
David Turell,
2016-02-04, 20:18
- Brain complexity: six new cell types found -
David Turell,
2015-12-04, 20:46
- Brain complexity: motion and vision -
David Turell,
2015-11-19, 16:06
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
BBella,
2015-11-11, 07:42
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
David Turell,
2015-11-11, 01:01
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
dhw,
2015-11-10, 18:39
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
David Turell,
2015-11-09, 15:40
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
dhw,
2015-11-09, 12:54
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
David Turell,
2015-11-08, 16:29
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
dhw,
2015-11-08, 13:41
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
David Turell,
2015-11-07, 15:26
- Brain complexity: seratonuin producing neurons -
David Turell,
2015-11-06, 23:02
- Brain complexity: whole brain vision mechanisms -
David Turell,
2015-11-06, 15:52
- Brain complexity: study difficulties -
David Turell,
2015-11-04, 21:52
- Brain complexity: microglia prune synapses -
David Turell,
2015-10-28, 23:30
- Brain complexity: synapse controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-26, 13:03
- Brain complexity: what it gives us -
dhw,
2015-10-19, 11:26
- Brain complexity: what it gives us -
David Turell,
2015-10-18, 14:08
- Brain complexity: gene changes add to complexity -
David Turell,
2015-10-14, 20:57
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-10, 14:43
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-10, 11:45
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-09, 21:59
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-08, 12:37
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-07, 20:38
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-06, 20:10
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-06, 14:52
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-05, 14:11
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-05, 12:48
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-05, 00:04
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-04, 12:46
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-03, 15:22
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-03, 12:16
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-02, 14:27
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
dhw,
2015-10-02, 12:28
- Brain complexity: circadian controls -
David Turell,
2015-10-01, 18:01
- Brain complexity: where is 'stop' action? -
David Turell,
2015-09-18, 14:22
- Brain complexity: surprise: males and females differ -
David Turell,
2015-09-04, 01:40
- Brain complexity: finding the genetic cause -
David Turell,
2015-08-29, 14:45
- Brain complexity: how the brain screens to help us -
David Turell,
2015-08-03, 17:26
- Brain complexity: we 'R not chimps -
David Turell,
2015-07-24, 19:17
- Brain complexity: two eyes, single vision -
David Turell,
2015-07-24, 15:50
- Brain complexity: review article -
David Turell,
2015-07-21, 11:49
- Brain complexity: using information -
Balance_Maintained,
2015-07-18, 00:58
- Brain complexity: using information -
David Turell,
2015-07-17, 16:10
- Brain complexity: parts connectivity -
David Turell,
2015-07-07, 19:25
- Brain complexity: directional hearing -
David Turell,
2015-05-12, 19:15
- Brain complexity: different cell types -
David Turell,
2015-02-20, 01:07
- Brain complexity: finding how we balance -
David Turell,
2015-01-30, 19:01
- Brain complexity: virus help -
David Turell,
2015-01-22, 14:56
- New brain complexity: Mouse brain maps -
David Turell,
2014-12-12, 18:03
- New brain complexity: relational thinking -
David Turell,
2014-12-09, 00:32
- New brain complexity: vibrations -
David Turell,
2014-11-18, 15:34
- New brain complexity: mapping -
David Turell,
2014-11-17, 15:11
- Brain complexity: interpreting speech -
David Turell,
2014-01-31, 00:48