Brain complexity: newborn neuron migration (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 12:55 (2968 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Twice you have pointed out that the supply of neurons/the complexity of the brain is a RESPONSE to experience/understanding/reasoning/use.
DAVID: No. the migrating neurons are supplied first, before there is any experience to modify them. The newborn brain starts as a blank slate. -As a layman, I can only rely on what the experts tell us, and you know far more about these matters than I do. But how do you know the newborn brain is a blank slate? Some researchers believe that babies already begin to learn language, for instance, from the sounds they hear while still in the womb. In any case, the article says the following:
“And the timing of the appearance of these neurons suggests either their migration or their integration into neural networks, or both, may be regulated by external stimuli and/or experience.'”-If the timing of their appearance may be regulated by stimuli or experience, how can you be so sure that they are already there before the baby has had any stimuli or experience?-dhw: You are a dualist. This can only mean that as consciousness has more and more things to be conscious of, the brain complexifies in order to contain and process the ever increasing amount of information provided by consciousness. -DAVID: True.
dhw: Under “Egnor” you claim that form appears before function. But according to your own comment, form (brain complexification) is a response to function (experience, understanding, reasoning, use), and so function comes first.
DAVID: No, size and capacity comes first. One learns how to use one's brain. 200,000 years ago H sapiens was given a new sized brain but, at first used it like his predecessors. With time the brain came to be our modern one today, but each infant starts the same way.-“Was given” a new sized brain is the point at issue. Still basing the argument on your dualism, if - as you have agreed - the brain complexifies in order to contain and process the information provided by consciousness, then consciousness must come first. The brain receives/responds: how can it receive/respond if there is nothing to receive/respond to? 200,000 years ago the new sized brain must therefore have been the RESULT of enhanced consciousness, as it responded physically to the new requirements engendered by a wider range of experiences. If you are prepared to consider materialism, i.e. the brain PRODUCES consciousness, you might have a more logical case, which could be developed out of your next comment.-DAVID: Interestingly you make no comment about the process itself of enhancing the frontal lobe. That is my key point, the amazing complexity. The early Homos were far better off than the apes. The advance to a bigger brain was not needed. There is obviously a supplied drive to complexity.-That is a different point which we have discussed over and over again. Yes, since life forms have not been confined to bacteria, there has to be an inborn drive not only for survival but also for improvement, and the drive for improvement inevitably entails greater complexity.