Brain complexity: learning new tasks (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, December 24, 2017, 12:15 (2526 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: The dualist’s brain is required to provide information to the dualist’s soul/self/consciousness,...There is nothing so complex in this as to warrant anything other than a yes to the first question [i.e. Do you, as a dualist, believe that consciousness/the soul conceives concepts before using the brain to implement them?]
DAVID: The s/s/c uses the brain to acquire information.

And to implement its concepts, as a result of which the brain changes.

dhw: Are you now saying that pre-sapiens and our ape cousins did not/do not have a pre-frontal cortex???
DAVID: What?! Of course not. Most of the all animal and hominin brains are/were concerned with automatic functions like breathing, muscle control and coordination. It is the pre-frontal cortex which enlarged at each stage in hominin development by 200cc and allowed all the civilized concepts and functions we now have.

You have left out the rest of my paragraph. My point is that instead of saying the brain enlarged/complexified, you are saying the pre-frontal cortex enlarged/complexified. It makes no difference to the argument! You say your God enlarged the pre-sapiens cortex BEFORE pre-sapiens could come up with his new concepts, and I propose the cortex enlarged through the implementation of new concepts. You are quite right to say that the final enlargement (which in my hypothesis would have been the RESULT of implementing earlier concepts) preceded all the “civilized” concepts we have now, because by then the brain had stopped expanding and complexification had taken over.

dhw: And since you are a self-proclaimed dualist, the pre-frontal cortex for you is NOT the source of thought/conceptualization/decision-making: it can therefore only be a provider of information and an implementing tool of the soul/self/consciousness.
DAVID: It acts as advanced computer for the s/s/c. I view the brain as an instrument.

Of course you do, since you believe there is a soul that directs it, but in any case I agree that consciousness, whatever its source, uses the brain as an instrument. And that is why it makes no sense to argue that the s/s/c is unable to conceive its concepts until AFTER the brain has developed the means to implement the non-existent concept. Modern science proves that the brain REACTS to new concepts and it does not change in anticipation of them.

dhw: […] and so it is not unreasonable to assume that both expansion and complexification have always followed the same procedure.
DAVID: Two separate events. New larger pre-frontal cortex arrives with more neurons and more axon branching connections ready to be used in more complex ways. More complex use is, yes, handled by more neuroplasticity so more enlargement is not necessary.

The pre-sapiens brain and skull allowed for further expansion. You have said yourself that an indefinite expansion of the human skull is science fiction. And so once it had reached its optimum size, complexification took over. In both cases, the brain responds to new concepts.

DAVID: As far as I am concerned your entire approach is backward as shown by the time line of expansions before new artifacts appear.
dhw: New artefacts only appear together with the fossils of the pre-sapiens who made them, and their brains have already expanded through implementation of the concept. Changes are CAUSED by implementation and do not occur before it.
DAVID: Does not explain our modern artifacts appearing 290,000 years after our larger brain arrived and had not realized any of our civilized concepts now currently filling libraries of books and computer records.

Once again: the larger brain “arrived” and could not expand any more, so complexification took over. You have agreed that advances depend on individual intelligences. Approx. 10,000 years ago a few geniuses introduced highly productive new concepts, and these were then built on by subsequent generations. 290,000 years is nothing in evolutionary terms: erectus hung around for well over a million years without making much progress. And you continue to gloss over the fact that changes are CAUSED by implementation and do not occur before it.