Brain complexity: learning new tasks (Introduction)

by David Turell , Saturday, December 23, 2017, 19:04 (2527 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Saturday, December 23, 2017, 19:11

dhw: You know how I love precision, so indulge me: two straight questions that simply require a yes or a no. Do you, as a dualist, believe that consciousness/the soul conceives concepts before using the brain to implement them? And do you accept that the implementation of concepts causes changes to the brain?

DAVID: I thought I was clear above. The adolescent brain research tells the story. A poorly developed frontal lobe does not permit full assessment of danger until age 25. Therefore the concept cannot be developed until the brain is ready. The brain is required for the soul/self/consciousness to develop concepts and implement. Brain is hardware, s/s/c is software that I can run. New coordinated physical and mental functions can cause the brain to rewire. Answer to question one is more complex than yes or no. Two is yes.

dhw: I don’t know how you can measure “full assessment” of anything - no brain is capable of acquiring all the information available. But I agree that no concept is possible without the information provided by the brain. The less developed the brain, the less “full” the information will be.

You are exactly describing the problem with the adolescent brain in other words.

The dualist’s brain is required to provide information to the dualist’s soul/self/consciousness,...There is nothing so complex in this as to warrant anything other than a yes to the first question.

The s/s/c uses the brain to acquire information.

DAVID: You have not commented on the size of cortex. The pre-frontal cortex of the modern human is a highly complex network of neurons and branched axons and it is that additiion that added 200cc to the skull size to contain this enlargement. To contain all of its complexity it is highly convoluted. That predicessors did not have this type of brain is shown by existing fossil skulls. Neanderthal skulls make the point. Their brains were bigger but their pre-frontal cortex was not as large. That advanced area arrived 290,000 years before we really began to have advanded concepts as we civilized. Obviously size came first and then use which didn't have to expand the brain b ecasue the cortex was so advanced and had the ability of neuroplasticity as you point out. The time table tells the story, no matter how much you twist and turn the logic.

dhw: Are you now saying that pre-sapiens and our ape cousins did not/do not have a pre-frontal cortex???

What?! Of course not. Most of the all animal and hominin brains are/were concerned with automatic functions like breathing, muscle control and coordination. It is the pre-frontal cortex which enlarged at each stage in hominin development by 200cc and allowed all the civilized concepts and functions we now have.

dhw: And since you are a self-proclaimed dualist, the pre-frontal cortex for you is NOT the source of thought/conceptualization/decision-making: it can therefore only be a provider of information and an implementing tool of the soul/self/consciousness.

It acts as advanced computer for the s/s/c. I view the brain as an instrument.

dhw: The only evidence we have relating to rewiring is that it takes place in response to the implementation of new concepts, and so it is not unreasonable to assume that both expansion and complexification have always followed the same procedure.

Two separate events. New larger pre-frontal cortex arrives with more neurons and more axon branching connections ready to be used in more complex ways. More complex use is, yes, handled by more neuroplasticity so more enlargement is not necessary.

DAVID: As far as I am concerned your entire approach is backward as shown by the time line of expansions before new artifacts appear.

dhw: New artefacts only appear together with the fossils of the pre-sapiens who made them, and their brains have already expanded through implementation of the concept. Changes are CAUSED by implementation and do not occur before it.

Does not explain our modern artifacts appearing 290,000 years after our larger brain arrived and had not realized any of our civilized concepts now currently filling libraries of books and computer records.